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To: P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg
You claim that God loved Jacob and hated Esau. Did he Hate Esau when Esau was a little child?

Not only since he was a little child, P-Marlowe, but if you'd open your Bible and start reading Romans 9:11, you'd see that He hated Esau before Esau was even born. So the question you need to answer yourself, Marlowe, is what does a man have to do to earn God's favor, if God wills that the man perish from before his birth?

"...for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy..."

135 posted on 02/09/2004 11:29:28 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy
So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

So right there free will is refuted. And yet the howls will continue

137 posted on 02/09/2004 11:37:21 AM PST by Gamecock (One day Marlowe will be a Calvinist)
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To: Alex Murphy; P-Marlowe
Not only since he was a little child, P-Marlowe, but if you'd open your Bible and start reading Romans 9:11, you'd see that He hated Esau before Esau was even born.

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) [Rom. 9:11].

God rejected the first born, and chose the younger son. At that time Jacob had done no good, and Esau had done no evil. It does not rest upon birth that was identical and it does not rest upon their character or their works. Paul makes the entire choice rest upon "the purpose of God according to election." He further qualifies his statement that it is not of works, but rests upon God who calls. However, the calling in this verse is not to salvation.

It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger [Rom. 9:12].

This is from Genesis 25:23, which was given before the two boys were born. "And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated [Rom. 9:13].

This is from the last book in the Old Testament, see Mal. 1:2–3. This statement was not made until the two boys had lived their lives and two nations had come from them, which was about two thousand years later, and much history had been made.

I believe its called context. :)

BigMack

175 posted on 02/09/2004 1:02:19 PM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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