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"I flatly state that the Bush alien-amnesty is (by definition) treason."

You are misusing the word "amnesty" (and way off base on "treason").

You might as well label every plea bargain between every local prosecutor and crook as "amnesty" as to abuse the word so with regard to Bush's illegal alien registration plan.

Bush's plan, while much maligned, would give us something that we *don't* have today: 8 million Registered illegals. Illegal aliens are already here, but they aren't currently registered with our INS and law enforcement. Institutionally, we don't know where all 8 million of them are living and working.

You don't gain such institutional government knowlege cheaply, either. Bush had to give something up to entice illegals to Register themselves. Some posters on this forum even claim that Bush hasn't given up enough to entice very many illegals to register (an interesting complaint, really). "They'll just stay unregistered and illegal," some claim.

Once registered, however, illegals can be dealt with en masse. On the other hand, trying to come up with the resources required to locate, track down, and detain 8 million crooks who are all anonymous and who are all on the lam (as are these illegal aliens) would be quite an undertaking (and rounding them up into internment camps would make earlier European WW2 concentration camp efforts seem small in both contrast and in terms of bad publicity).

But with Bush's plea bargain, illegals can pay their fine, register, and then they get a blue card and the right to work here for 3 years. It's a deal. Prosecutors knock these deals out every day. Of course, they have to deport themselves at the end of that period in order to apply for more time here...and Bush's plan gives them the incentive to do that, as well as establishes a Registry that will aid our law enforcement in rounding up those who don't comply.

That's hardly "amnesty." Sure, there might be better ways to deal with illegals, but this plan isn't all bad...and it isn't a completely free amnesty.

It's a plea bargain, and it gives us something (e.g. a Registry) that we need for Homeland Security...all without spending tons and tons more of our precious tax dollars.

Of course, we *could* go door to door with our military in efforts that would make the SS of 1944 Germany look civilized, and we could round up all 8 million illegals who are already here...but I urge you to consider not only the financial cost, but also the bad publicity of setting up temporary internment camps for housing 8 million illegal aliens (compared to say, 6 million WW2 Jews in Europe).

In that light perhaps you can began to see that President Bush's plan to encourage 8 million illegal aliens to accept his plea bargain is a rather good deal for us all.

The alternative is to continue the current status quo of having them all unregistered, a position that I find difficult to support, much less pay for. Ditto for the publicity of rounding that many people up by force. The scope of this problem is so large that it warrants a nationwide plea bargain in order to make it manageable.

You make an interesting case. I disagree with your conclusions, but it is interesting.

Too bad it won't work. There have already been a number of analyses of this plan, which elucidate (in painful detail) the flaws of it, and detail the unworkable nature of the entire proposal.

It is, in reality, amnesty. The reason I flatly state is clear: your entire argument rests on a key assumption: namely, that the government will now enforce immigration laws. If we are to judge the validity of this assumption, our only choice is to examine the past behavior of the U.S. government, especially in the last decade or two. And that examination will reveal a history of not enforcing those laws. Why should we believe they would do so, now?

An even more basic question: these aliens- demonstrated by the very fact that they are here illegally, do not respect the law. Do you honestly think that they will, now? Especially if they have to pay $1000 to "register?" Can you honestly tell me you believe this???

The Bush proposal is a rewarding of illegal behavior, and the ramifications of such a reward will be devastating. I don't have the links handy, but I've seen the analyses of already-documented increases in crime rates (and correlating prison populations), the decline of aggregate wages in areas and the decline of real-estate values, all of which have a high degree of correlation to the increasing population of illegal aliens, esp. Mexicans and Central-Americans.

Such effects- if embraced by the US government, will be a disaster. Again, as already discussed in painful detail. Therefore, since such a proposal will do immense damage to our country, and undercut the American citizens who gave their faith and trust to W., I submit that he is breaching that trust, and therefore he is proposing treachery and treason- by the definition I've already posted.

This conclusion in unavoidable.

Of course, we *could* go door to door with our military in efforts that would make the SS of 1944 Germany look civilized...

Such sensationalism- after your previously lucid comments- degrade your argument. I do not (now will I) propose such odious measures. You cannot, even at the business-end of a weapon- root and out and force out all the aliens. Such notions are naive.

What you can do, is make it so unpalatable for those who don't belong here, that they choose to go home willingly. And that is not a question of armed troops, but simply the enforcement of the immigration laws that already exist.

For the president to shirk his responsibility, and ignore those laws...?

Well, as I said before: an employee who refuses to perform his job gets fired.