Bush to Seek Immigrant Benefit Protection

Washington Post ^ | January 4, 2004 | Mike Allen

[Ian McGreggor]

CRAWFORD, Tex., Jan. 3 -- President Bush will propose protections for the Social Security taxes paid by the workers who would come into the country under massive changes to immigration laws he plans to announce on Wednesday, Republican officials said Saturday.

Bush's plan would make it possible for such workers from Mexico and perhaps other countries to collect retirement benefits without being penalized by their home countries for the years they spent working in the United States, the officials said.

Officials began releasing details of Bush's plan shortly before Christmas and provided new details over the weekend. The officials said Bush's plan will contain a new system to help workers who want to enter from Mexico or other countries if they have jobs waiting for them. It also includes a mechanism for some undocumented residents to continue working in the United States and get on a path to legal status.

[MJY1288]

"My neighbor Larry is a good example. He's a master carpenter...works on the Mandelay Bay Casino...or did. You have to be very good to be hired to work on the Casinos. He was replaced by an illegal...most of the construction is now being done by under the table illegal workers."

Jail those who employ illegals and that will help quite a bit. Right now, all we ever see is the illegals arrested as those who knowingly hired them just hire a few more next week to replace them. We all have a social security number, why not make it possible for an employer to verify the validity of the SS card number and require an explanation of what was done when a bogus number was given for employment.

To police the border is the wrong approach IMHO, enforce our employment laws and make those who hire illegals pay a heavy price and I believe we will see a dramatic decrease in illegal immigration.

[FITZ]

We haven't been close to ignoring them. For many years we gave them plenty of good tourism business --- but now their crime rate has cost them a lot of that. We've rescued their peso many times. We have them NAFTA -- all those maquila jobs --- millions. But that's not enough. We've allowed in more of their citizens legally than any other country. But that's not enough. Fox says he wants "The whole enchilada" and spells out all his demands --- but not one of his offers or suggestions for what HE will do for the citizens of Mexico in Mexico.

[JustPiper]

We have this handy little thing here that peruses a profile and responses in posts...wish I had checked it before I wasted my time responding to you , as if you could debate intellectually from all your posts responses.

Example:
Pennsylvania LP blasts state's 'socialistic' budget ^ Posted by Dane to Badray On News/Activism ^ 01/02/2004 4:07:06 PM CST #31 of 48 ^
Dane, if you are going to criticize other people for mispeaking or making typos, you should at least run a spell checker and watch your punctuation
Dane:Uh dude you should read my replies after #20, before you get that itchy keyboard finger.

Post after post of yours is ridiculous and you just love creating friction-bye-bye Dude ;)

[jwh_Denver]

We truly adhere to a liberal rag like the Post

I haven't read that POS in years. They gave a "subscrption" but I left it by the door for 2 weeks and they got the message.

[JustPiper]

deport the illegals already here

EW asking for the world, when they won't give us even our neighborhoods back, will not happen. Remember -baby steps One thing at a time and build momentum for our struggle

[Sabertooth]

I have never said there wasn't a problem, All I am saying is that with a border as vast as our is with Mexico. The idea that our border can be patrolled is laughable. Identification is one answer and jailing any employer who hires illegals is another. But try and get Congress to pass any kind of National ID card legislation and the same people screaming about this non existent proposal will have their knickers in a twist like never befor

Jeepers, the idea that the solution to the border is exclusively at the border is laughable, and I've been saying so for a long time. Look at my previous post to you: "The American Interior is the problem."

All of this crap about patrolling the border (troops and walls) and national ID cards is crap. It's stupid crap parrotted by angry anti-Illegals, cynical crap muttered by pro-Illegals, and uninformed crap from anyone else.

It's all distraction and misdirection.

This problem is no harder to solve than wanting to solve it. We can get rid of Illegals rather effectively, by rolling up our sleeves and getting the Illegals to get rid of themselves.

I've posted the following before, and I'll do it again.

The first order of business, of course, is to enforce existing laws on the books against Illegals and those who employ them. Also, politicians must be held to account when they pander otherwise.

Then...

• 1: Eliminate all mention of Section 245(i), even if expired, from the US Immigration and Naturalization Code. No more Amnesty, ever.
  
  
• 2: Get legislation through Congress that would enable States to deny goodies to Illegals, a la Prop #187.
  
  
• 3: Outlaw Mexican matricula consular IDs, and kick banks accepting them out of the FDIC. Legal depositors will withdraw from recalcitrant banks.
  
  
• 4: Beef up Border Security with manpower, resources, and a Volunteer Reserve, if necessary. No troops, and no messing with posse comitatus, this should be a civilian effort.
  
  
• 5: Beef up the immigration courts and set deportation hearings for two weeks after apprehension, with no bail.
  
  
• 6: Run sting operations at day laborer sites.
  
  
• 7: Establish two-way communication between the IRS and Border Security, and start apprehending and deporting Illegals using false SS numbers (no, the current overhyped voluntary program doesn't count).
  
  
• 8: Seize the assets of businesses knowingly hiring Illegals under the RICO Act, as they are ongoing criminal enterprises. Prosecute executives who knowingly hire Illegals.
  
  
• 9: Compile biometric information on Illegals, and declare that they will be permanently ineligible for immigration and citizenship.
  
  
• 10: If the United States declares that the above proposals against Illegals will be diligently enforced after a certain date, many Illegals will leave beforehand, and a relatively small number of well-publicized cases of enforcement throughout the Lower 48 will result in millions of Illegals deporting themselves.
  
  
• 11: End the busting of immigration caps by limiting family reunification to spouses and dependent children, and counting them against the caps when they are brought in. Require all future immigrants to declare their future intent to bring in family upon arrival. This way, families can immigrate in a controlled, orderly fashion without the current deceptions being used against the American public. We must have truth in immigration.
  
  
• 12: Outlaw anchor babies, and give the option to the Illegal parent of taking the child with them upon deportation, or putting them up for adoption.
  
  
• 13: Outlaw bilingual ballots, and resume the English-speaking requirements for citizenship.
  
  
• 14: Establish English skills as a prerequisite for future immigrants. Let's start admitting folks who will hit the ground running toward assimilation.
  
  
• 15: Shut off new immigration to nations that offer dual citizenship. Disqualify current immigrants from those nations from future American citizenship.
  
  
• 16: Make Mexico and Central America our cheap import sources of choice with tariffs on manufacturing from other sources, especially China.
  
  
• 17: In return, Mexico must open up to American investment by allowing the sale of real estate to us and guaranteeing property our rights. Getting Mexico to fix its economy is crucial.
  
  
• 18: Establish a guest worker program where an initial bond is posted by the Illegal and his employer, say $500 each, with more withheld from the Illegal's earning, as security for his departure from the US by the specified date. Guest worker visas must be applied for in the workers' countries of origin, and participants are only eligible to be employed by their sponsoring employer. Violation of these terms will render the worker ineligible for any future visas or residence in the US. Any guest worker program can only come after anti-Illegal measures are in place. Handshake promises of future diligence will not be trusted from any politician of either party, including President Bush.

The list above is by no means comprehensive, and can be adopted piecemeal or in a single package. That said, incrementalism is probably going to be the way to go, especially politically.

These measures would provide a little carrot and lots of stick for Illegals already here to get themselves out. Some of them will need to be tested in the courts, which is another reason to adopt them piecemeal, so that an injunction against omnibus legislation can't stall the whole effort.

We ought to be looking initially at easy, politically safe legislation, like the new accounting for family reunification, Border Security/IRS cooperation, English speaking citizenship requirements, and a few others. Our politicians are a trembling, timid bunch, and need to gain a little self-confidence before they'll tackle more difficult issues.

Note a few things that aren't on my list: troops or walls on the border. I think they are a futile diversion from cost effective solutions. The best possible wall at the border is to let foreigners know that we respect our sovereignty, and they had best do the same.

Note also that I don't call for an immigration moratorium, though others do. I think their position is within the respectable mainstream of a dialogue about immigration, and it's possible I might change my mind later, but I am not currently persuaded that an outright moratorium is necessary.

The main problem is multimillion-strong mass of Illegals, and the secondary problem is how we currently select legal immigrants for rapid assimilation into American society. I believe my proposals adequately address both situations, but there is certainly room for debate on the back end.

Note also that I have a guest worker program that is actually honest and responsible, and not an Amnesty by another name. My program would ensure that law-abiding foreigners are background-checked before entry, rather than rewarding lawbreaking Illegals after the fact.

All of the above could be adopted while allowing politicians so-inclined to chant the "compassionate conservatism" mantra.

A few final thoughts...

My proposals will cost money and require an expansion of the federal government in certain areas. However, this expense and expansion is all well within the legitimate, Constitutional responsibilities of the federal government. There will be a greater expense initially, as we ramp up to deal with the backlog of Illegals, but a number of my proposals are at least partially self-funding. Also, success in these endeavors will eventually reduce the need for them, and as many Illegals would leave on their own.

In contrast, there would be also be an increased expense and expansion of the government if there is an Amnesty, but increases and expansions which would only serve to reward the lawlessness of Illegals and the cowardice of politicians, thereby encouraging more of the same, unless there are also enforcement proposals like mine in the American Interior.

But, if we strengthened and enforced our laws consistently within our borders, then we don't need the phantom solution of Amnesty anyway.

[JustPiper]

At least you said something good ;)

''I'm not saying make them citizens,'' Ridge said. ``They violated our laws to get here. You don't reward that kind of conduct.''

But guess what Rogue? Ridge is LYING! Or two-faced , it's your choice

[ETERNAL WARMING]

Jail those who employ illegals and that will help quite a bit.

I agree, MJ. The only way to get rid of the problem is to dry up the jobs. The only way to do that is mandatory jailtime for anyone hiring illegals.

[Dane]

Post after post of yours is ridiculous and you just love creating friction-bye-bye Dude ;)

Huh, I just give my opinions like you do, if you don't like it tough. Not everybody on FR is going to your own little personal sycophant.

[JustPiper]

My husband, a union journeyman in chicago has had a terrible time getting jobs for the very same reason. Why pay him $30+ an hour when illegal labor is so cheap? So he took a job most likely few illegals would take for $12 an hour!!!

[JustPiper]

Good to hear this, very glad. You may have known my brother ;) Thornton?

[JustPiper]

Your SS is a good idea, problem is many employer's want to avert this and hire cheap labor

[ETERNAL WARMING]

My proposals will cost money and require an expansion of the federal government in certain areas. However, this expense and expansion is all well within the legitimate, Constitutional responsibilities of the federal government.

Good proposals, Sabertooth. But I disagree that it will cost money...think of all the tax dollars we'll save by not having to pay housing, food stamps, education and hospital to subsidize them. I bet we could more than break even.

[ThinkDifferent]

I believe that Bush has adopted a "whatever it cost to get a vote" position

Yeah, and even from that perspective it makes no sense. (Former) illegals aren't going to vote Republican; no matter how many freebies Bush offers them the socialists will always be able to top it.

[JustPiper]

Good going JW ;) I trainde one of my felines to be paper trained...Chicago Sun-Times, but never bob's column ;)

[Cultural Jihad]

My husband, a union journeyman in chicago has had a terrible time getting jobs for the very same reason. Why pay him $30+ an hour when illegal labor is so cheap? So he took a job most likely few illegals would take for $12 an hour!!!

Join the "Know Nothing Party" and put an end to this yellow peril.

[JustPiper]

Does the government care Saber? YOU should be head of INS!

[MJY1288]

To try an deport illegals who come here, as well as trying to seal our borders is much like the Gun Ban the District of Columbia passed many years ago.

The right to privacy makes it impossible to enforce such a ban, and after the ban of guns was passed in Washington D.C., the murder rate was the highest in the Nation. These kinds of laws are typical of the liberal mindset, they hold the gun more responsible than the criminal who uses it. The same can be said for trying to police the border, Why not focus on those who hire these criminals? When the day comes that the risk of hiring an illegal out weighs the benefit of their cheap labor, The illegals will find work the legal way, whether it's here or in Mexico, because the risk to the employer and/or managers of those companies who facilitate their illegal actions

[JustPiper]

You always have a way with your posts ;)

[Jorge]

Where is your evidence that the jobs offered to illegals were ever offered or posted for Americans to decide they wanted or didn't want?

Where is their evidence they weren't?

Guess you think these companies would have prefered to close their doors and go out of business rather than hire Americans?