Posted on 10/18/2003 6:01:26 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
Then I will. I believe that he is a good man who worked diligently, sincerely and honestly for the betterment of FR. In light of this, I read his words seriously and gave them a patient hearing.
BadJoe is just another in a long string of people who didn't get what they wanted out of FR and has reacted badly to this fact.
I agree, but I don't see this as grounds to discount everything he says. In particular, his charge that certain moderators were engaging in an "ideological cleansing" campaign against libertarians rings true, and concerns me. There was a period last year when some of us suspected such a thing, although I admit that I never held my tongue, never received a warning, and never had a post pulled (except one, and that with a detailed email apology from the AM).
OWK, Daus, Paul Hepperla...it's good to see so many of FR's wise elders posting once again.
I agree completely.
His website, his proceeds, his business.
It was the "what he wanted" that differentiates Badjoe from others.
He wasn't seeking personal gain, power, or anything of the sort. (like countless other Jimrob butt-smoochers past and present)
He was seeking an FR as a "force for good".
An FR that values liberty, rights, and governmental restraint over party politics.
An FR where dissenting opinion wasn't crushed and buried by overzealous "true believers".
Donuts to dollars we'll get another thread of this similiar topic next year this time if not sooner.
Indeed... but the truly interesting observation here, is WHO posted it on FR.
It wasn't Badjoe.. was it?
Listen Meg, you're "new" so you really don't know Joe.
He's a good guy, on our side, & his association with Robinson was something to admire, once.
I feel nothing but emptiness over this & am particularly grieved Joe felt compelled to do what he has.
I think Joe hurts, wants to mend things, & would just like some respect.
Nobody knows what really went on between the *principles* here, except them.
It's Joe's perception he got a raw deal; &, he set the record straight just as any one of us would under like circumstance.
"Seems everyone complaining bitterly wants Jim to abdicate and turn over running FR to them."
There seems to be a power struggle of sorts but that's really not all that unusual in venues whenever intelligent, ambitious people are brought together in close quarters.
High performance always comes with high expectations.
"I saw no character shining through in the BadJoe diatribe."
You're so wrong, MEG, & that's because you don't know Joe.
Easily happens if one thinks with their emotions & not their head, y'know.
Without knowing the full picture, one only gets half the story, at best.
I can say that without the need to "serve an indictment" on either man, too.
If I'm going to wish for anything in this matter, it'll be that JR & Joe forget their few differences & renew their many commonalities, & do so for friendship's sake.
If that happened?
...getting back to the once common goal now obscured, would be child's play.
I demand that you untie the real Landru, and release him from the basement at once!
Agreed, being an AM would get old mighty quick--unless you just get a kick outta possessing the "Power of ZOT!!"--if you couldn't participate in a juicy discussion.
"In fact in the infrequent instances some leaker breaks the rules at those places mods rarely need to take any action a'tall; since, the rest of us are quick to take care of the *problem* in all but the most extreme situations. Come to think of it? Isn't that *how* FR used to deal with the occasional troll who'd wind up having to deal with the rest of the forum? In those days JR&Co rarely ever posted to a topic, nevermind ever intervening in the scraps between people. Peer pressure's a powerful force for modifying behavior on a BB, IF, one seriously expects to return on a consistent basis."
Yep...I sorta miss whuppin' up on the Lib'ral Troll du Jour (whatever happened to Ol' MurryMom, BTW?) every once in awhile...and some of them would actually try to defend their positions intellectually (although it's obviously impossible to defend Lib'ralism without exposing yerself as a mindless drone), and it was a challenge to see if you could make a light go on in a Lib'rals' noggin' every once in a great while. Now, these folks git zapped afore I even get a crack at 'em...LOL!!
A greater danger is when we lose the ability to provide constructive criticism of our own side, especially like when Dubyuh's lack of a conservative domestic agenda is questioned. It's one thing when the Bushbots castigate you on-Forum as a BushBasher...I can handle that sort of exchange. However, when the Bushbots have the secretive power to ZOT you and silence your contructively-critical opinion, it weakens the Bush Administration's position more than anything else, IMHO.
FReegards...MUD
And everyone will use those actions to sweep under the seriousness of some of what he said.
Yep...BJ's obviously very impassioned in his love for this website, and troubled by the problems with which he believes it's afflicted. Trashing JR, though, is no way to get the results he'd like to see. I thought it weakened his argument and probably confused some less-aware readers into believing his comments were the rantings of a malcontent, despite the persoanl history noted elsewhere in the post indicating otherwise.
FReegards...MUD
LOL...the OneWhoKnows and the All-Knowing Machine...gotta love it!!
FReegards...MUD
And FR.com is enriched becuz of it...MUD
FWIW, and I realize it's not worth a damn, I always thought Joe was a very hard working member of FR. He worked his tail off during the fund raisers and had his heart in the right place. Back then, I was a monthly donor. When I got sick (if you don't know, don't ask this isn't the place), he asked me if I wanted to stop being a monthly donor due to any upcoming medical expenses I might be having. I told him no, but later decided to rescind my monthly donation for other reasons.
When I learned about the trouble between Joe and Jim, I was shocked. I wasn't spending a lot of time on FR then but even if I had, I typically never bothered to read any of the flame wars that tended to go on and on for days...and for you newbies (and for those of you who have been around for 2-3 years, you "are" newbies) there were some doozies. I never could understand how some freepers could seemingly be online reading and posting for 24/7. I simply had better things to do with my time. Anyway, while I didn't bother to ever find out what happened with guys like Don Morgan or Nav, I did go back and read about Joe...and I still don't fully understand it, but then I doubt the two principal players do either.
The only observation I'd like to make is that over the years there seems to be a trend that those in Jim's, for lack of a better term, "inner circle" tend to "fall from grace." Now whether Jim simply has a sucky track record for selecting those to be in his inner circle, or whether there truly are people sucking up to Jim to advance their career, or whether once in the inner circle they become power hungry...who's to say. Either way, it doesn't matter. One thing remains constant, it's Jim house. Play be his rules, or there's the door.
Finally, there are two freepers who (in my opinion) repeatedly get the short end of the stick in regards to their efforts in helping to organize the March for Justice in October 1998. While admittedly Cal played a large role in making that event a success, the work of A Navy Vet and Jolly should not be forgotten but unfortunately usually are.
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