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To: Frapster
On the issue of tithe, there is a lot of misinformation. First, it is highly ironic that evangelical Christianity has taught "tithing" while saying ALL the rest of the Tabernacle/Temple system "were fulfilled in Jesus, and done away with." It brings out the skeptic in many.

Let me first say that I am "Torah-submissive" (which means that when Psalm 119 says that God's people should DELIGHT in the Torah/Law of God, Torah/Law is a GOOD thing that is worthy of DOING) - and I also believe that Jesus DID fulfill all of the Tabernacle/Temple system, but that He encouraged His disciples and hence us to prophetically act out His fulfillments. The First Century followers of Jesus believed this as well (Read Acts 21:20). Being "Torah-submissive" does not mean I believe in works-based salvation - I simply believe that when Jesus said in John 14:10, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love," that keeping God's Torah was the intended EFFECT of salvation - not the cause.

Now, regarding "tithe", many say, “We should give… at least a tithe.” Yet many of those same people cannot tell you where Scripture commands this. Many people, who would consider the commands of the “Old Testament” passé, might be shocked to learn that there is no command to tithe in the New Testament. This is not to imply that there is no command to tithe – only that often those most likely to deny the authority of the “Old Testament” still cling to some commands that serve their purposes.

“‘Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in My house, and try Me now in this,’ says the LORD of hosts, ‘If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it.’” Malachi 3:10

Malachi 3:10, is likely the most quoted passage in pulpits during various “pledging” drives. So where does this command to “tithe” in Malachi come from? The Hebrew word for “tithe” is ma’aser (pronounced: mah-as-ayr). It is spelled mem-ayin-shin-resh. It comes from the root asar which means to make a grouping of ten. Ma’aser is literally “a tenth”. Tithe was mentioned before the Book of Leviticus. Abram paid a tithe to Melchizedek and Jacob promised to pay a tithe at Bethel, but nowhere was it commanded until Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Read Deuteronomy 12:4-6. Then read Deuteronomy 14:22-27. Now read Deuteronomy 14:28-29 and Deuteronomy 26:12

A careful reading of the commands for tithe will reveal that there is not one tithe, but three. The first tithe was 10% of a landowner’s crops etc. This was to be given to the Levites (they were landless). The second tithe was 10% of a landowner’s crops (or exchanged for money) etc. to be taken to the Tabernacle (or later Temple) to be consumed by the landowner’s family during the three yearly visits to “where God caused His Name to dwell” (Tabernacle/Temple). The third tithe was collected and distributed by a landowner to the alien and the poor every third year out of the seven year cycle. No tithe at all was collected in the seventh (sh’mittah) year. How does this all relate to us today in a time where there is no Temple to go to three times each year and consume the second tithe in what must be characterized as a community celebratory meal? No matter what modern church leaders might say, there is absolutely no correlation between the modern church building or property and the biblical Tabernacle or Temple. To suggest such a thing is an abomination.

How are we to treat the first tithe which was collected to give to the Levites? Certainly, the second tithe is virtually unknown in the evangelical world, and the first tithe is assumed to be collected for “church leadership” as if they were some modern-day Levitical priesthood. But is that what was commanded? Who were Levites? Were they seminary trained and ordained – or were they simply born into the Tribe of Levi?

Ironically, the third tithe (the one every third year for the poor and alien), is the one easiest to apply today, and yet our benevolence is usually collected and distributed by a “tax deductible” entity instead of by the individual as is indicated in Scripture.

In the "Newer Testament" there is ample evidence for giving, but not the "tithe" (that does NOT mean that it went away however - it is just that the mechanism for the first and second tithe (i.e. to the Levites and for the family celebrations in Jerusalem 3 times a year in the Tabernacle/Temple) was not available to the majority of readers of the Epistles - But the 3rd tithe WAS available to the readers (and those living today) - which was giving the poor and alien (NOT to support the Tabernacle/Temple).

Is there any basis for providing for those who teach/preach? Of COURSE - but it is NOT the tithe. 1 Corinthians 9:8-14 gives great insight into using giving to provide for those who teach/preach (not positions, rather people who DID certain things). Note, an ox that does not tread the grain does not eat. It is not "official position" that gets provision - it is workers.

James 1:27 and James 2:15-17 relate to the “third tithe” (for the poor and the alien), which is the focus of giving in the "New Testament" - sadly, the mega-church thinking in America has poluted the thinking of God's people regarding giving.

What is sadly missing today is a clear understanding of God’s intended purpose for our giving. Let’s get something clear: God does not need our money, our crops, or our flocks. The "mega-church" of today is an embarrassment of riches. I grew up in Africa and I know many missionaries, and the constant building programs in America("build the vision, "build the promise," "build the future" should shame us when we look at what missionaries have to deal with.

So, in my opinion, I don't care so much whether "net" or "gross" is used in calculations. I am the one to give (not some tax deductible entity, er, corporation). My FIRST responsiblity is for the poor and alien (since there is no Tabernacle/Temple and no serving Levites to give to). Next, I should be generous in providing funds for "those who teach".
72 posted on 05/23/2003 1:57:35 PM PDT by safisoft
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To: safisoft
The "mega-church" of today is an embarrassment of riches.

Yes indeed, our diocese had a slush fund to silence poor children abused by priests to the tune of 10 million! While some priests have spoken out against the Catholic church in my area mostly you only hear from accused priests defending themselves and an occasional good Priest who is indeed a true conservative and condemns the bad ones which is rare in my opinion and only heard by those lucky enough to be as his mass any given Sunday. Do you know they no longer tell us which Priest is saying which mass (not all parishes but most) because people, if they know in advance avoid the bad ones like the plague. One of my cousins is a nun and she also is a principal for a Catholic Elementary school. She speaks often about how pampared the priests are how the nuns are given the scrap s. May sound harsh but basically our "tithing" is providing many selfish priests with an abundance of excess goods. Not uncommon for a priest to have a wine cellar for when he has company. Another example would be building a new church. Why do they need all new items for the church? Why are the old chalaces and such no longer worthy? Didn't former parishioners donate and tithe to buy said items only to have them passed on when its time to build the mega church? My mon in laws church was rebuilt in 92. The collection process disgusted me. They wanted every parisioner to basically agree to donate a fixed amount over time. It did not matter if you donated as many hours to the parish as my inlaws did. The bottom line was we need the money. My in laws are not wealthy in any way but they struggled to pay that monthly payment. It really turned me off. How alarming to find out that Giuliani's good friend, former Monsignor Placa was an abuser. This is where our tithe money went. Very sad day.

86 posted on 05/23/2003 2:53:45 PM PDT by alisasny
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