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Do aliens really exist?
thebelfasttelegraph ^ | feb-15-2003 | By Adam Sage

Posted on 04/18/2003 11:44:07 PM PDT by green team 1999

Do aliens really exist? Just ask France's official UFO hunters

By Adam Sage

Flying saucers and alien spacecraft have long been favourites of film and TV producers, but Jean-Jacques Velasco believes that not all UFO sightings can be dismissed as products of over-active imaginations

ON a cold Monday morning 22 years ago, Jean-Jacques Velasco was sitting in his office when a gendarme rang to tell him about a strange incident. Renato Nicolai, a retired technician, had been working in his garden in Trans-en-Provence, near Nice, when he saw a dark, round object come down from the sky, settle on the ground and take off again, the gendarme said. Over the years, Velasco has heard many such stories, and disproved most of them. But this one was different - this one was credible, he believes. Something seems to have landed in Trans-en-Provence, he says, and that something has never been identified.

But who is Velasco? Another crackpot determined to find a flying saucer? No, he is a scientist working for the state-run National French Centre for Space Studies (CNES), where he heads a department responsible for analysing what are commonly called unidentified flying objects (UFOs) but what are officially known as unidentified aerospace phenomena (UAP).

A neatly-dressed, bespectacled man, Velasco talks with the careful precision of an academic who is keen to be understood. He is not saying that he has come across visitors from another planet; he is saying merely that events occur for which science has yet to find an explanation, and which merit further inquiry.

Velasco's department was set up in 1977, the year that Close Encounters of the Third Kind was released amid a global UFO fever. Across the world people thought they saw strange figures, flying saucers and bright lights.

But there were few serious attempts to probe the issue. The CNES set up the Service for Expert Appraisal of Atmospheric Re-entry Phenomena (Sepra). Based in Toulouse, the department is as pedantic as its title sounds: the staff are state-employed scientists, shaped by a prudent, rigorous and somewhat bureaucratic culture. In France such bureaucracy can often be cumbersome and painfully rigid. Yet in this domain at least, this rigidity offers a guarantee of impartiality that is rare as far as UFOs are concerned.

Last year, when the CNES was told to reduce its 1.3 billion budget, the organisation's president, Alain Bensoussan, ordered an audit into Sepra's work. A wide range of French scientists was asked whether it was worth continuing research; almost all said yes.

One reason is because, unlike most other UFO-hunters, Sepra's staff are neither seeking publicity nor peddling an obscure belief in extraterrestrial civilisation. They say they do not know whether extraterrestrial beings exist or not, and look disparaging when you ask them to voice their hunches on the question.

They do not have hunches, only statistics. Yet the statistics that Velasco has made public are eloquent. Since, 1977, Sepra has received some 6,000 reports of alleged UFO sightings. Of these, 110 are from civil or military aircraft crew, and the rest from ordinary French people who have almost invariably contacted their local gendarmerie.

In 21.3% of cases there is a clear, indisputable and banal explanation: a firework display, a novel lighting system involving a luminous balloon, a cloud above the Pyrenees that is shaped like a flying saucer. In 24.9% there is a probable explanation, and in 41.3% the information is too vague to be of use. But in 12.5 per cent of cases about 750 sightings since 1977 the evidence is detailed and inexplicable, and is thus categorised as an unidentified phenomenon.

Most alleged UFOs are spotted by the sober and sensible, says Velasco. "In all our statistics on the people who see these phenomena only one in 1,000 is not credible because of alcohol. People go to gendarmerie spontaneously; mainly because they want to know what they have seen."

Yet a witness's good faith is not enough, and the story must be corroborated. Consider, for instance, a case reported in 1994, when the crew of an Air France flight from Nice to London saw a dark, 300-metre long object over the Paris region. The object disappeared before the aircraft had got near it, and the flight continued without difficulty. A few days later Velasco travelled from his office in Toulouse to the military aviation control centre outside Paris, where he was given a read-out of the radar information from the day in question. It revealed that an unknown object had indeed flown over the French capital.

Consider, too, the Trans-en- Provence case. Velasco went through the usual checks with the gendarme. Was there evidence? The apparent answer was yes, as there were marks in the grass where the object had supposedly landed.

Velasco drove to Trans-en-Provence and took ground samples. These showed that the area had been heated to between 300ºC and 600ºC, that it had been compressed by something weighing up to a tonne and that the plants there had been affected by a strong electromagnetic field. Velasco concluded that Nicolai had indeed witnessed a strange happening. So should we conclude that little green men were taking a look at Provence from their spaceship? Velasco dismisses such ideas.

"We cannot say whether there is a link between the question of extraterrestrial life and that of non-identified aerospace phenomena," he says. "But we can show that UFOs exist. The problem is interpreting them, and I hope that scientists, and other people, look at this question more seriously."

for information and discusion only,not for profit etc,etc.


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Miscellaneous; UFO's
KEYWORDS: aliens; france; ufo; xfiles

1 posted on 04/18/2003 11:44:07 PM PDT by green team 1999
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To: green team 1999
Yep they do, look at James Carville.
2 posted on 04/19/2003 4:09:45 AM PDT by gulfcoast6 (Jesus is a friend who walks in when the whole world walks out.)
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To: green team 1999
I figure most UFO sightings are just airplanes. Yet there are enough reports around from people who can tell the difference, that one has to really wonder.

Even Phil Klass thinks Earth has probably been visited by at least an alien probe, or so I have read.
3 posted on 04/19/2003 11:18:34 AM PDT by Sam Cree (liberals are the axis of evil)
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To: Sam Cree
"Even Phil Klass thinks Earth has probably been visited by at least an alien probe, or so I have read."

I am unaware of this. Seems dubious.

There is an argument--along the lines of the Fermi Paradox. It goes like this:

The Sun is a 3rd-generation star. If there are lots of intelligent ETs, they've been around for thousands or millions of years, and their technology would appear godlike to us. Even at 5% of the speed of light, there has been ample time for every star to be visited.

One strategy would be to build 'von Neumann' robots. Programmed to select a star at random, gather all data, and build a copy of themselves from local materials. Dump the entire database into the copy; then both vehicles randomly go to two more stars. You get an exponential explosion of probes, each knowing everything its ancestors did. The payoff: every once in a while, one of the probes wanders home and dumps its data. A huge payoff for a modest investment.

The problem is that there ought to be a traffic jam of probes right here, right now. We do not observe them. Hence either there are no intelligent ETs or the difficulty of achieving even 5% of "c" are insurmountable.

=======================

Incidentally, the book "Rare Earth" makes distressingly-persuasive arguments which lead to the conclusion that we are the only intelligent species in the Universe--or maybe only the Milky Way Galaxy. Recommended reading.

--Boris

4 posted on 04/23/2003 6:27:05 PM PDT by boris (Education is always painful; pain is always educational)
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To: boris
I don't begin to remember where I read that about Klass, I will try to find it, though.

The "Fermi Paradox" argument is compelling.

Have never heard of "Rare Earth," so looked it up on Google. Found a discussion in which the authors stated that the operative word is "rare" rather than nonexistent. Drake was included in the discussion, along with others. Interesting stuff, theories on the requirements for "complex animal" life which I had not been aware of.

I am wondering whether or not you think that there is intelligent alien life.

My gut feeling is that there is, though I don't at all feel competent to speculate on whether it could be common or rare. Nor am I convinced that it has visited Earth, though I think it may well have.

I have always spent alot of time outdoors, both at sea, which requires alot of time looking at the sky (because of the need to be constantly aware of the weather) and in the woods. I have yet to see any suggestion of a ufo. I figure most reports of them have to be mistakes...but perhaps not all, some accounts remain too difficult to explain away.

I tend to think that those who would be too positive either in believing or disbelieving are assuming too much. Surely we have established the truth of certain laws of physics, from which we can draw conclusions. Yet I persist in believing that there likely remains much still undiscovered that may well, as the future unfolds, change drastically what we think we understand of the universe.

I also am thinking that if there are races advanced as far beyond us as we are beyond, say, a frog, then their capabilities will never be within our understanding.

5 posted on 04/23/2003 9:10:20 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: All
"Just stare here at the little red light."

"Now move on, nothing to see here."
6 posted on 04/23/2003 9:15:25 PM PDT by TD911
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To: green team 1999
Hoagland probably has his own wild explanation for the delay of the Mars mission...

Faulty Robots Delay Mars Mission
22/04/2003 11:22

NASA has delayed the launch of the first of two missions to Mars, to fix a problem in its Rover robots that could cause them to short-circuit.

The 30th May launch date for the first Rover mission has been delayed by at least a week, according to officials at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, California.

The problem stems from the system that Rover uses to sever the cables that connect it to the Boeing Delta II rocket. Rover must cut itself loose before it can land on Mars.

‘Test runs detected a problem in Rover's system that could cause it to misinterpret the signal to cut the cables, with potentially disastrous consequences for the mission’, said Guy Webster of JPL.

The earliest possible date for the second launch is 25 June 2003.

(Source: AFP)

7 posted on 04/23/2003 9:41:13 PM PDT by Pro-Bush (Iran/ Syria = Gulf War III)
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To: green team 1999
Jesus the Christ meant it when He said, "Do not worship anything not in My Own Image."
8 posted on 04/23/2003 11:20:00 PM PDT by Born on the Storm King
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To: green team 1999
They may be time travelers visiting a place in time where something very significant happened or is about to happen. Time travelers use space craft so that they can materialize in space near the target planet and not risk materializing underwater or in a mountain, etc. Also the craft contains a safe air, water, and food supply. Our air, etc may be fatal to them even if they came from a future earth. Or not.
9 posted on 04/24/2003 12:46:26 AM PDT by Consort (Use only un-hyphenated words when posting.)
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To: Sam Cree
Just look at James Carville and you will say 'yep'.
10 posted on 04/24/2003 3:49:12 AM PDT by gulfcoast6 (Laziness and poverty are cousins.)
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To: gulfcoast6
Carville is God's punishment to the United States, for worshipping false idols ;-)

11 posted on 04/24/2003 6:18:21 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Sam Cree
"I am wondering whether or not you think that there is intelligent alien life. "

I used to, but then I read "Rare Earth".

I fear we may be the only intelligent species in the galaxy. Perhaps each galaxy has one or two.

This saddens me greatly, since I have spent my life trying to help humans reach space--and ultimately (in a few hundred or thousand years?) the stars.

Being "alone" bothers me a lot. It imparts a terrible portent to everything you do--down to bodily functions. Also if the human race is the best the Universe can produce, it's a pretty sorry place.

The more I learn about the problems of living in space--and the near-impossibility of attaining even a fraction of the speed of light, the more depressed I get. If humanity is "stuck" on Earth, it is doomed. Either by the proverbial giant asteroid, or some other disaster (such as, say, a "super SARS" that kills 100% and spreads like wildfire).

Think about this: we may be living at (or near) the peak of human achievement, well-being, and knowledge...everything goes downhill from here. There are six billion humans on Earth; the planet can probably support 20 billion but eventually (and soon) the sheer numbers of people will cause some kind of disaster(s).

I'm glad I have no children.

--Boris

12 posted on 04/24/2003 6:44:22 AM PDT by boris (Education is always painful; pain is always educational)
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To: boris
"This saddens me greatly, since I have spent my life trying to help humans reach space--and ultimately (in a few hundred or thousand years?) the stars."

That's extremely interesting, may I ask in what capacity you were involved?

I happen to believe that the future of humanity has to lie in space exploration. I argue this with one of my friends, his position is that the money spent on NASA ought to be used here on earth, for social engineering, developing a new energy source for cars or whatever. My answer is that while the short term benefits of spending the funds like that may seem to be greater, the long term benefits of space exploration are everything, they are our future.

I think your pessimism regarding life elsewhere could be overstated, it seems to me that, good as the arguements against it may seem, they may well presume an understanding of the universe that we have not yet attained. Kind of like trying to determine the existence of God through logic, perhaps it can't be done.

OTOH, sometimes I personally feel like humanity is doomed to be a failed species.

I also have a fear that discovery of an alien life form could be an unpleasant surprise, particularly if they are not only more technologically advanced than us, but also advanced greatly in intelligence.

13 posted on 04/24/2003 7:29:50 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Sam Cree
I'm a propulsion engineer. 28 years so far.
14 posted on 04/24/2003 7:57:45 AM PDT by boris (Education is always painful; pain is always educational)
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To: boris
I had a thought that would get us around the Fermi paradox.

Aliens may have arrived near earth before we had the ability to track orbiting probes. They may well have removed them if their intentions are to not announce their presence.

What exactly is a propulsion engineer? Does that mean you work with rockets? I suppose, perhaps incorrectly, that man is not going very far from the solar system until we have a radically different technology than rockets.
15 posted on 04/26/2003 5:41:46 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Sam Cree
"What exactly is a propulsion engineer? Does that mean you work with rockets?"

My boss thinks so.

--Boris

16 posted on 04/27/2003 8:00:00 AM PDT by boris (Education is always painful; pain is always educational)
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To: boris
Ha! A rocket scientist. When expounding on the evils of socialism, I am always saying, after making a point "well, it's not exactly 'rocket science'." :-D

Seriesly, though, I am much impressed.
17 posted on 04/27/2003 8:54:40 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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