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To: Aurelius
Having entered in a perpetual union, secession from the United States by the slave powers was not supported in the constitution. If the framers contemplated states coming and going from the union, they would have provided structure for it.

The confederacy was formed to protect and expand slavery, which is tyranny in its purest form.

160 posted on 01/25/2003 7:45:36 AM PST by mac_truck (Mendacem oportet esse memorem.)
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To: mac_truck
As in your head was run over by?

You must be another example of Yankee brainwashing.....





Sic Semper Tyrannis!..and Deo Vindice!
162 posted on 01/25/2003 8:30:37 AM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: mac_truck
Having entered in a perpetual union, secession from the United States by the slave powers was not supported in the constitution.

Can you provide the exact portion/clause of theConstitution acknowledging this alleged fact?

If the framers contemplated states coming and going from the union, they would have provided structure for it.

See Amendment X.

The confederacy was formed to protect and expand slavery, which is tyranny in its purest form.

I certainly disagree. The same situation existed in 1776, when the founding fathers and the several states dissolved their former relationship with Great Britain, and again in 1787 when the Constitution was drafted, which did not prohibit slavery, it expressly protected it.

Territories purchased by the federal government or ceded to it by the several states, must be held in trust for the benefit of all states, not just those desiring a lily-white west (free from ALL blacks, not just slaves). By denying the slaveholders the right to emmigrate west, they were violating the Claims Clause (Article IV, §3, Clause 2 which states, "nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State".

According to Bouvier's Law Dictionary, 6th ed., 1856, prejudice is defined as:

To decide beforehand; to lean in favor of one side of a cause for some reason or other than its justice.

166 posted on 01/25/2003 10:33:52 AM PST by 4CJ
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To: mac_truck
Having entered in a perpetual union, secession from the United States by the slave powers was not supported in the constitution. If the framers contemplated states coming and going from the union, they would have provided structure for it.

If the framers thought that it was "perpetual" and that states could not withdraw, then why did some States specifically declare they could do exactly that when they ratified the Constitution and created that union?

When New York agreed to ratify the Constitution it specifically stated in it's declaration "That the powers of government may be reassumed by the people, whensoever it shall become necessary to their happiness."

Virginia's declaration included these words: "the powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the People of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression"

A State's right to reassume the powers it ceded to the Union were very clearly stated when that union was created. The New England states certainly didn't think it was "perpetual" or they wouldn't have come within a gnat's hair of seceding themselves a few decades after the Constitution was ratified. (more than once)

180 posted on 01/25/2003 6:31:19 PM PST by thatdewd
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To: mac_truck
Thank you for sharing a portion of your version of history with me.
181 posted on 01/25/2003 6:54:49 PM PST by Aurelius
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To: mac_truck
Having entered in a perpetual union, secession from the United States by the slave powers was not supported in the constitution. If the framers contemplated states coming and going from the union, they would have provided structure for it.

Of course that is right. The reason the ratification debates were so rancorous is because the framers knew the Constitution was perpetually binding. A leading federalist, James Wilson, was beaten almost to death by anti-federalists. There were no illusions in 1788-90 as to the permanence of Union under law.

Unilateral state secession is a fiction of a later generation.

Walt

184 posted on 01/25/2003 7:07:31 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa (To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men)
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To: mac_truck
Having entered in a perpetual union, secession from the United States by the slave powers was not supported in the constitution.

What clause in the Constitution attests to it's perpetuity?

If the framers contemplated states coming and going from the union, they would have provided structure for it.

They did - read the Tenth Amendmenment.

The confederacy was formed to protect and expand slavery, which is tyranny in its purest form.

You wield a wide brush - I disagree with your premise. The several states - from their Declaration of Independence from Britain, into the Articles of Confederation, and into the Constitution all supported slavery, as did much of the known world (still practiced today in Africa).

229 posted on 01/26/2003 6:55:37 PM PST by 4CJ
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