[ Daily Tolkien / Lord Of The Rings ] The Nature of Faramir?

When Faramir and his men capture Frodo and Sam, Faramir declares his identity to the two Hobbits with the following words: "'I am Faramir, Captain of Gondor,' he said. 'But there are no travelers in this land: only the servants of the Dark Tower, or of the White.'" (A minor side-note by the way: one white use this passage for an argument that the two eponymous towers are those of Barad-dûr and Ecthelion.) Faramir’s line is ominous: he knows that Frodo and Sam are not servants of Gondor, therefore they are enemies by default. Faramir goes on to ask where Sam’s and Frodo’s companion is, whom he alleges to be a 'spying breed of Orc.' The implication is obvious what Faramir thinks of those that would take up with a spying breed of Orc.

Frodo begins to explain himself and his mission; and mentions Boromir. "'Boromir son of the Lord Denethor?' said Faramir, and a strange stern look came into his face." Now, a 'strange stern look' is rarely a positive sign; and in retrospect Faramir’s distrust of the Hobbits becomes apparent through his withholding a pertinent detail, to wit that he is Boromir’s brother. Faramir will, in fact, use this against Frodo in a few moments. First, however, Frodo speaks of the riddle which both Faramir and Boromir heard in a dream -- Faramir acknowledges recognizing the lines -- and then identifies Sam and himself as the 'Halflings.' Faramir shoots straight back with 'What is Isildur’s Bane?' Frodo answers evasively: 'That is hidden.' (This allows two meanings: 'I don’t know' or 'I am keeping it hidden.') It should now be said that neither side is being particularly honest with the other: both are withholding something.

Faramir must then go to the battle. Faramir has two reasons to keep Frodo and Sam alive: they know something about Boromir as well as about 'Isildur’s Bane.' Faramir places them under guard till his return. The man whom Faramir sets over the two Hobbits, Mablung, is under no illusion what Faramir means to do with the Hobbits:

Mablung: "When [Faramir] comes we shall depart swiftly."
Sam: (freely) "Try not to wake me when you do."
Mablung: "I do not think the captain will leave you here."
(I.e.: "You’re coming with us" -- the sentiment is ominous; and, as it turns out, correct.)

After the battle against the Haradrim Faramir returns for a full interrogation of Frodo:

"He had brought many men with him; indeed all the survivors of the foray were now gathered on the slope nearby, two or three hundred strong. They sat in a wide semicircle, between the arms of which Faramir was seated on the ground, while Frodo stood before him. It looked strangely like the trial of a prisoner."

The trial of a prisoner indeed! For that is what it is; Faramir has taken Frodo prisoner and is now interrogating him in a high pressure situation: behind Frodo are three hundred armed Gondorian soldiers; before him is his interrogator.

Now we have already seen that Faramir distrusts Frodo and has withheld his relationship with Boromir. Tolkien brings Faramir’s distrust straight back to our attention through Sam’s observations:

"Faramir's face... was now unmasked: it was stern and commanding, and a keen wit lay behind his searching glance. Doubt was in the grey eyes that gazed steadily at Frodo." This, of course, well befits an interrogator who thinks his prisoner is lying to him. As indeed Faramir does: "Sam soon became aware that the captain was not satisfied with Frodo's account of himself at several points: what part he had to play in the Company that set out from Rivendell; why he had left Boromir; and where he was now going. In particular he returned often to Isildur's Bane. Plainly he saw that Frodo was concealing from him some matter of great importance."

I have just remarked on the ambiguity of Frodo’s evasive answer 'it is hidden.' Faramir caught the ambiguity and returns to it: "It is hidden, you say; but is not that because you choose to hide it?" Frodo is forced to admit that he is concealing something, but counters by revealing Aragorn’s identity as Isildur’s heir. This bowls Faramir's men over completely, but Faramir himself remains 'unmoved.' But Frodo, in fact, has just bought himself some time: he's used a simple trick; he’s changed the subject. Faramir gives him his head, however; and Faramir, as we’ll see, has no intention of letting Frodo off the hook in regard to Isildur’s Bane. Frodo, having had some success by changing the subject, speaks further of Boromir as if Boromir were alive, and now Faramir moves to catch Frodo out on this subject. He asks a trick question, "Were you a friend of Boromir?"

Frodo hesitates; "Faramir's eyes watching him grew harder." "At length" Frodo answers, evasively, "Yes, I was his friend, for my part." Faramir now moves to spring the trap: "Faramir smiled grimly. 'Then you would grieve to learn that Boromir is dead?'" Frodo realizes that Faramir is trying to "trap him in words" and protests.

Faramir: "As to the manner of his death, I had hoped that his friend and companion would tell me how it was." (Faramir next words will show that his use of "friend" is sarcastic -- he suspects that Frodo contributed to Boromir’s death.)
Frodo: "[Boromir] lives still for all that I know. Though surely there are many perils in the world."
Faramir: "Many indeed, and treachery not the least."

At this stage the interrogation of the prisoner has reached a high point in the tension. Frodo has found himself maneuvered back and forth: his evasion on Isildur’s Bane has been laid bare; a desperate attempt to change the subject has seen him blunder into another trap -- and he now finds himself accused of complicity in Boromir’s death, of which, however, he knows less than Faramir; so how can he answer Faramir’s accusation?

Tolkien here breaks the tension by having Sam make a comic interjection -- but Faramir’s response in not comic at all: "I might have slain you long ago. For I am commanded to slay all whom I find in this land without the leave of the Lord of Gondor." In other words, Faramir holds the power of life or death over his two prisoners. The threat is palpable.

Shortly thereafter Faramir finally admits that he is Boromir’s brother. Faramir takes it easy on Frodo in the next portion of the interrogation; he lets the conversation eddy and turn from Boromir to Lórien. Frodo finally asks to be set free: "Will you not put aside your doubt of me and let me go?" That, however, Faramir will not do.

Faramir has already suggested one possible decision he might make about Frodo: obey orders and have him killed. He now considers a second: "I should now take you back to Minas Tirith to answer there to Denethor." But he has yet to make his final decision in the matter: in the meantime, "you, Frodo and Samwise, will come with me and my guards ... In the morning I will decide what is best for me to do and for you."

Frodo doesn’t exactly have a choice in this matter. "There was nothing for Frodo to do but to fall in with this request." He is Faramir’s prisoner; and Faramir is currently considering two options: to slay Frodo; or to send him to Minas Tirith. It does not look good for Frodo.

As they walk towards Henneth Annûn, Faramir speaks further with Frodo. We now learn that Faramir was aware that Frodo had changed the subject away from Isildur’s Bane: "we were drawing near to matters that were better not debated openly before many men. It was for that reason that I turned rather to the matter of my brother and let be Isildur's Bane. You were not wholly frank with me, Frodo."

Now Faramir gives out that he is returning to press that point. The interrogator’s trick he plays on Frodo is exemplary. He is turning from the matter of his brother to that of Isildur’s Bane: "'I would hazard that Isildur's Bane lay between you and was a cause of contention in your Company. Clearly it is a mighty heirloom of some sort, and such things do not breed peace among confederates, not if aught may be learned from ancient tales. Do I not hit near the mark?'

"'Near,' said Frodo, 'but not in the gold. There was no contention in our Company, though there was doubt: doubt which way we should take from the Emyn Muil. But be that as it may, ancient tales teach us also the peril of rash words concerning such things as -- heirlooms.'"

By pretending to ask about Isildur’s Bane, Faramir just got Frodo to reveal something about Boromir: "Ah, then it is as I thought: your trouble was with Boromir alone."

These things are typical of Faramir as interrogator: he is good at ostensibly asking one thing while aiming at another. Frodo is being whipsawed from one subject to the next; surrounded by armed men he has to answer -- and Faramir keeps tricking things out of him. Faramir has laid bare his evasions about Boromir and Isildur’s Bane; though he has not yet got out of Frodo the full truth concerning the latter. Now he piously begs forgiveness for having "pressed Frodo hard" -- and draws off to something else, letting Frodo relax again. Perfect interrogator’s style.

He finds a mutual topic of interest (Gandalf), on which he and Frodo can be friends. He assures Frodo that he means no harm with regard to Isildur’s Bane (and doesn’t press Frodo anymore on the subject): "What in truth this Thing is I cannot yet guess; but some heirloom of power and peril it must be. A fell weapon, perchance, devised by the Dark Lord... But fear no more! I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory. No, I do not wish for such triumphs, Frodo son of Drogo."

The conversation thenceforward is friendly, inviting of confidence. It’s another interrogator’s trick, of course: put the prisoner at his ease; be friends with him; reassure him. (It’s the "good cop" part of the "bad cop/good cop" routine.) "So fear me not! I do not ask you to tell me more. I do not even ask you to tell me whether I now speak nearer the mark. But if you will trust me, it may be that I can advise you in your present quest, whatever that be -- yes, and even aid you."

Yet Frodo, though sorely tempted, figures this trick out: "Frodo made no answer. Almost he yielded to the desire for help and counsel, to tell this grave young man, whose words seemed so wise and fair, all that was in his mind... Better mistrust undeserved than rash words. And the memory of Boromir... was very present to his mind, when he looked at Faramir and listened to his voice." Faramir may do the same thing which Boromir tried. Boromir wanted the Ring; Faramir, his brother, may attempt to take it also.

If Frodo sees through this trick, Sam doesn’t. Faramir lets Frodo be. As they approach Henneth Annûn he has his prisoners blindfolded (but takes as much care to let them know that this is just a precaution, etc.). Once in Henneth Annûn Faramir plays the gracious host (trying to keep the Hobbits at their ease), but his words to Anborn reveal that he doesn’t yet trust the Hobbits.

Sam overhears enough of the conversation to make it clear that Faramir has not forgotten Gollum. Faramir concludes: "'We do not want the escapes of Mirkwood in Ithilien.' Sam fancied that he gave a swift glance towards the hobbits as he spoke." Faramir is clearly still deeply suspicious of the Hobbits -- the issue of Gollum is still a complicating factor; Frodo is still withholding something about Isildur’s Bane (even if he didn’t help to kill Boromir); and Faramir has, at any rate, yet to decide what to do with Frodo: kill him or send him to Minas Tirith. No other possibility has been mentioned. And Frodo, for his part, is reminded too much of Boromir to trust Faramir.

At any rate, Faramir returns to the interrogation -- as the good cop: "On your journey from Rivendell there must have been many things to tell. And you, too, would perhaps wish to learn something of us and the lands where you now are. Tell me of Boromir my brother, and of old Mithrandir, and of the fair people of Lothlórien."

Frodo is canny enough to understand: "Frodo no longer felt sleepy and he was willing to talk. But though the food and wine had put him at his ease, he had not lost all his caution."

We, as readers, by this point should also have seen through Faramir. Faramir is not going to let the matter rest until he finds out about Isildur’s Ring. He is patiently using every interrogator’s trick in the book to worm information out of his captives. He’s tried trick questions; traps, set up by withholding information; intimidation (three hundred armed men); implied threats ("I might have slain you"); reverse psychology ("I do not ask you to tell me more. I do not even ask you to tell me whether..."); the whole good-cop routine; now we’re at "have some more wine, and let’s tell each other about ourselves."

Frodo keeps his guard up; but Sam doesn’t. The dramatic tension, however, remains: will Frodo let his guard slip at last? Will Isildur’s Bane be revealed? And, if so, will Faramir react as did Boromir. Frodo suspects that he will -- and so must we. This is, of course, the most threatening aspect of the whole scene: will Faramir lunge for the Ring (as did his brother) if Frodo reveals it? The whole interrogation has seen Faramir come closer and closer to finding out about the Ring; his friendliness (as evinced by his remembering Gollum and his sharp glance towards Frodo) is clearly directed to a purpose: finding out what Isildur’s Bane is. The dramatic tension for us is, "will Frodo slip in his caution?" We are waiting for the moment; the threat which Faramir poses is perfectly clear; they are Faramir’s captives; he’s already shown himself a wily interrogator -- how long can Frodo hold out? And will Faramir then succumb as did his brother?

Finally, Sam gives away his interest in Elves. Faramir is happy to oblige Sam by talking about Elves and Lórien. Sam’s tongue is loosed:

"'It strikes me that folk takes their peril with them into Lórien, and finds it there because they've brought it. But perhaps you could call her perilous, because she's so strong in herself. You, you could dash yourself to pieces on her, like a ship on a rock; or drowned yourself, like a hobbit in a river. But neither rock nor river would be to blame. Now Boro -- ' He stopped and went red in the face.
"'Yes? Now Boromir you would say?' said Faramir. 'What would you say? He took his peril with him?'
"'Yes sir, begging your pardon, and a fine man as your brother was if I may say so. But you've been warm on the scent all along. Now I watched Boromir and listened to him, from Rivendell all down the road -- looking after my master, as you'll understand, and not meaning any harm to Boromir -- and it's my opinion that in Lórien he first saw clearly what I guessed sooner: what he wanted. From the moment he first saw it he wanted the Enemy's Ring!'"

Tolkien has brought everything to the climax: Faramir has doggedly pursued this piece of information throughout the entire interrogation with every possible trick. We’ve been wondering how long Frodo could keep his guard up; and now Sam’s blabbed: and now Sam understands the trick Faramir was using: "You've spoken very handsome all along, put me off my guard, talking of Elves and all!"

The next step is to find out whether Faramir will commit Boromir’s sin and try to seize the Ring. Tolkien moves us straight to that:

"'So it seems,' said Faramir, slowly and very softly, with a strange smile. 'So that is the answer to all the riddles! The One Ring that was thought to have perished from the world. And Boromir tried to take it by force? And you escaped? And ran all the way -- to me! And here in the wild I have you: two halflings, and a host of men at my call, and the Ring of Rings. A pretty stroke of fortune! A chance for Faramir, Captain of Gondor, to show his quality! Ha!' He stood up, very tall and stern, his grey eyes glinting.

"Frodo and Sam sprang from their stools and set themselves side by side with their backs to the wall, fumbling for their sword-hilts."

1.) Faramir distrusts Frodo because he realizes that Frodo is hiding a great deal from him;

3.) Faramir interrogates Frodo (both in a high pressure situation in public with lots of intimidation and in private in an attempt to put Frodo off his guard);

4.) Faramir is an extremely tricky interrogator determined to get to the bottom of the matter;

5.) Frodo fears that Faramir will take the Ring because of what his brother did;

6.) Tolkien purposefully builds Faramir’s continued interrogations up as a very real threat -- will Faramir find out what Isildur’s Bane is; and will he then attempt to seize it?

Most of the complaints about the presentation of Faramir in the movie have centered on these points:

As far as I can see, Tolkien’s presentation on Faramir has him threatening the Hobbits and kidnapping the Hobbits; Tolkien keeps suggesting that Faramir too may try for the Ring in the same way as Boromir already had.

1.) Faramir is a wily interrogator in the book: the movie could not possibly give us the book’s lengthy triple-interrogation scene, with all its twists and turns. But it certainly gave us Faramir as hard-nosed interrogator.

2.) The movie shows us Faramir as threatening to the Hobbits; it makes us think that he will try to take the Ring as did his brother.

3.) The movie then plays with another option: Faramir will send Frodo (and the Ring) to Minas Tirith (present in the book as well).

And I think pervert is just really over-dramatic.

Look, I'm not some bible-thumping nut who is upset at Jackson based on his record of making soft core porn. However, in my humble opinion, there is just no doubt that he intentionally robbed the story of fundamental parts and added in his own ideological biases. I don't have to go into details about how he screwed up the consul of the Ents by premising their attack on all that enviro-nazi crap, do I? I don't see any difference between my being revulsed by that and my sister being upset about the nonsense taught to my nephew in daycare. Is that too dramatic? Well, maybe I'm lucky that I don't have anything serious to complain about!!!

If you (or you kids, lover, or parents) really like the movie, then by all means, ignore my scroogy analysis. Hell, I might even go see the damn thing again! As I said earlier on this or another thread, the first half of the movie was the best movie I'd (maybe the Matrix excluded) had ever seen.

KayEyeDoubleDee, your basis for disagreement about the nature of Faramir is based only upon his own spoken words. That is fine, but a few points should be considered before deciding to do so.

It is not known what Faramir's actual thoughts were because Tolkien did not provide us with that insight-remember that Tolkien liked to use ambiguity for effect. Instead we are presented Faramir through the point of view of the Hobbits with their internal dialogue.

The Hobbits were quite mistrustful of Faramir for reasons cited in the above article. Spoken words can decieve, and especially if the One Ring is attempting to influence that person.

Frodo witnessed this with Boromir:

"Are you sure you do not suffer needlessly?" [Boromir] said. "I wish to help you. You need counsel in your hard choice. Will you not take mine?"

"I think I know already what counsel you would give, Boromir," said Frodo. "And it would seem like wisdom but for the warning of my heart."

"Warning? Warning against what?" said Boromir sharply.

"Against delay. Against the way that seems easier. Against the refusal of the burden that is laid on me. Against-well, if it must be said, against trust in the strength and truth of Men."

You read the passages related to Faramir with the omniscient knowledge from multiple readings that he is an honorable and capable man who will let the Ring pass. Yet the first time reader-guided only by Frodo and Sam's point of view-are not privy to the foreknowledge and see potential danger as the Hobbits do. Additionally, after the Ring has passed, he is no longer within it's sphere of influence and would therefore make potentially different decisions as well.

Frodo had seen Boromir, a courageous, honest and capable man fall to the lure of the Ring even though Boromir's words would indicate otherwise. From Frodo's point of view, why should Faramir, Boromir's own brother, be any different.

The only individual not influenced/tempted by the Ring is Bombadil, all others are susceptible and Frodo knows this. Since Faramir would also be under some influence of the Ring, trusting his words would be perilous as long as he is in a position to take the Ring.

In the book when Faramir allows the Ring to pass we begin to see that he is more cautious and deliberate in his actions and is able to resist the Ring somewhat and make the right decision. The movie, even with much less room to do so, also presents this side of Faramir as well. It is only later in the books that we are able to fully appreciate Faramir's character outside of the influence of the Ring and I expect that the third movie will bear this out.

I personlly don't have a problem with Faramir's treatment on screen. That he did not spell everything out through speech wasn't an issue for me since I still see Faramir's qualities through the actor's presentation. The fundamentals are there and I anticipate that they will be enhanced when the extended version is released which will allow Jackson more screentime to help develop the characters.

The fundamentals are there and I anticipate that they will be enhanced when the extended version is released which will allow Jackson more screentime to help develop the characters.

Very true Jame... We know that one of the major factors in editing this film was to cut any character development that did not develop Frodo in particular, that for the three hour version, it had to be about Frodo. For the extended version, more development was done for the other characters. I think that will be true again. I am certain that a lot more was filmed.

My first reaction was that he was harsher than the book, but not extraordinarily so, and only because he doesn't get as much dialogue as in the book. He was shortened. The actor indeed plays it very subtly... and in this film you can miss a lot if you do not notice the glances and the moments of thought he portrays. I noticed them more on the second view than the first. PJ requires you to interpret and read these characters, and fill them out with what you already know, if you know them. Those fans that don't know better, won't care either. You are quite right that I am bringing the memory of what I know when I see his character. I want to like him, I want to respect him, and I do. ;~D

It is only later in the books that we are able to fully appreciate Faramir's character outside of the influence of the Ring

He is NOT influnced by the Ring! I have quoted extensively to prove this. It is this near purity that Jackson ignores. I can only assume that this is because people like Jackson don't really believe in such quaint concepts, however, I've tried to object to the treatment of the story without going off on an ideological crusade against Jackson.

and I expect that the third movie will bear this out.

Well maybe he'll fix everything in his version of the Silmarillion. I personally will approach The Return of the King without any hope for Tolkien's themes to be present.

And there is no reason that this point of view (valid as it is) has to be the final say rather than something to be resolved in a manner true to the story and the characters.

Tolkien presented his story that way. It is hard to transfer point of view to film, and I think that might be why many fans such as yourself are disliking the Faramir characterization. In going from point of view in the book to film, Jackson had to show that; the Hobbits were in potential danger, that the Ring does influence everyone and that the film Faramir still possessed the qualities shown at that point in the book.

As I said, with the time constraints he had, I think Jackson did present Faramir's true (if abridged) character. I see that the Hobbits fear his reactions. I see deliberation and caution in his actions. I see his interrogatory nature. I see that the Ring may or may not be the dominate factor in his thinking and decisions. None of this is out of character for Faramir at that point in the book. I do hope that the extended version gives us more development, but for what was needed in the movie I think it covers the necessary characteristics of Faramir for moving the story along.

And the Elves at Helm's Deep don't bother me the way it has some others, but I admit that it takes quite a stretch to believe that the Elve's of Lorien knew just where to be, and when, when the main characters hardly knew themselves and never communicated their plight to anyone. Theoden didn't expect any help and said so. Gandalf had to have interecepted Haldir to point the way on where to be, but then you have to ask, so just where were Haldir and his bowmen going?

I just wish Jackson were honest about his changes. I don't think that after 3 hours we should need to expect discrepancies in charactesr to be cleared up in an extended DVD.

Why not start making films where you pay for a choppy audience version at the theater and then pay for the DVD to restore the key parts that allow the rest of the film to make sense?

What is missing from both NZ Striders analysis and the movie version of Faramir is his honesty, kindness, and integrity. He states he will not take the ring; he also states that he would not lie even to an enemy. He asks for Frodo to forgive him for the way he has treated them. If Tolkien wanted to show him as merely treacherous, he would have shown Faramir's words to be lies. But he didn't. Everything Faramir stated, he stood behind. No kindness he showed ever led to a demand for anything in return. He was completely noble, not just some tricksy ring grabber.

Faramir was also an astute observer of the situation. He was not rash. He was very thoughtful and deliberate. All his actions were carefully measured to determine the truth, not merely to trap Frodo and Sam. I know that for some reason Peter Jackson did not want to bring that Faramir to the screen. But, it's beyond me as to why. A character of that level of nobility is very rarely seen on screen and would have been an asset to the film. Contrary to those who would think nobility boring, even NZ Striders analysis depicts a character who has some interesting qualities. We just never get to see them on screen.

As for time constraits being a problem, maybe the warg scene, the fall off the cliff or certainly most of the extra scenes with Arwen and the elves could have been left out for a little more true to book Faramir.

I understand this is Peter Jackson's movie. It's just that he did such a good job on Fellowship of the Ring, that I have a hard time comprehending why he made so many of these unnecessary changes to the Two Towers. The change to Faramir is the one I have the most trouble understanding.

What is missing from both NZ Striders analysis and the movie version of Faramir is his honesty, kindness, and integrity.

exactly

I understand this is Peter Jackson's movie.

true

It's just that he did such a good job on Fellowship of the Ring, that I have a hard time comprehending why he made so many of these unnecessary changes to the Two Towers. The change to Faramir is the one I have the most trouble understanding.

And I think people around here are a bit miffed that my explaination of the changes is that Jackson's ideology seeped into the story...

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