The Hobbit Hole III - Journey to the Cross-roads!

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The Hobbit Hole!

Journey to the Cross-roads
The Two Towers Edition

Come on! Come in! -if you would like to have some seedcakes and a pint and relax a while. (If it is a special occasion, we still have a few bottles of the old wineyards left!)

Our first thread ( New Zealander builds Hobbit hole ) reached 4,100 posts, and we thought that was big. Our second thread (The New Hobbit Hole ) held us for over 48,000 posts, and we loved it dearly. We talked about moving to a new thread for the last 38,000 posts, but we are really slow to muster! Finally, the time has come. Tomorrow (at 12:01 am, to be precise!) The Two Towers comes out, and we start a new chapter.

[Wordsmith]

If that's the case, then what does it say about the Pubbies that they allowed Lott to stay in power for so long?

Sadly, not much. My (admittedly baseless) hope is that the younger generation of GOP leadership - like my new Senator Sununu, or Kyl from Arizona - is a lot more sophisticated in their understanding of how to handle conversations about race.

I realize it's how this stuff works, but I still wish the Pubbie Senators with name stature would come out and do the damage control Trent can't do himself. Where the heck is Hatch, or Gregg, or even McCain? How about one of our recent retirees like Gramm or Helms?

I've been trying to come up with an LOTR-inspired angle on this. Denethor comes to mind at first, fall of a powerful man due to pride and all that. But even the big D is too noble to compare to Trent.

[carton253]

I think that will be left for ROTK and better expressed with Denethor... my opinion only. You can't give away the whole plot in a minute, cause you got three more hours to fill!

[Lil'freeper]

Has anyone noticed the barrage of nasty keywords on the various TTT review threads today?

[HairOfTheDog]

No - do we have a keyword troll out taking wimpy potshots?

[ItsOurTimeNow]

Example?

[RMDupree]

Yes, I have. "Took Mom to prom", "parents basement", etc.

The trolls are out and bored as heck, it appears.

[HairOfTheDog]

Why don't we have any keywords to speak of yet is the question!

[Lil'freeper]

Ha! The admin cleaned them up! Three cheers for Admin!

They included things like: Excused from PE for Life, asthma, acne, thick glasses, star trek, took mom to prom, skin disorder, etc.

[Lil'freeper]

Found some more: 6MILLIONMAN; ACNE; ACTIONFIGURES; AINTITCOOLNEWS; ASTHMA; AVCLUB; BLOWUPDOLLS; BRACES; CBRADIOHANDLE; CHESSCLUB; COMICBOOKCOLLECTORS; COSTUMES; DORKALERT; DRWHO; EXCUSEDFROMPEFORLIFE; FAIRYTAILS; FIRSTKISSEDBYSISTER; FREEKS; GEEKSUNITE; GORE; HEADGEAR; HIGHWATERPANTS; HYGENEISSUES; INHAILER; LAZYEYE; LOTR; MAKEBELIEVE; MANNHEIMSTEAMROLLER; MOREHOMEWORKPLEASE; NOONEUNDERSTANDSME; ORTHOPOEDIC SHOES; POCKETPROTECTOR; PREPUBESCENT; REJECTS; RENAISSANCEFESTIVALS; SCA; SKINCONDITION; SPAZES; SPELLINGBEECHAMPS; STARTREK; STEALMYMILKMONEY; THICKGLASSES; TOLKIEN; TOOKMOMTOPROM; TWO TOWERS; UBERDWEEBS; UNCOORDINATED; WEDGIE; XFILES;

[Species8472]

Good Morning Everyone!

I caught the late showing of the movie last night and am finally able to speak again in complete sentences this morning. The film was everything I had imagined and more. This is truely the greatest accomplishment in the history of filmmaking.

PJ had to take a few liberties with the story to make it work on film. I actually liked his rendition of Farimir. Can you say hero? He made the decision to do the right thing and release the hobbits, even though his life would "be forfit". How many of our soldiers in Afghanistan or firefighters in New york entered a cave or one of the burning towers with the same kind of "so be it" attitude in the face of certain death. The scene(amoung many others) brought me to tears.

I dont think I thought of Gollum for more than 5 minutes as a cgi character before he became as real to me as any real person in the film. I am still in awe over the battle sequences at Helms Deep and Isengard. There was not enough of the Ents and I sorely missed the reunion scene in the ruins of Isengard between Merry, Pippin, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolis. It has to be my favorite part of the book and I can only hope that PJ has pushed it into ROTK. I will have to see this movie again and again (starting tomorrow night!!)

[Wneighbor]

Iguana wrote - 'I think what we Tolkien Purists must admit is that our experience of these movies is inevitably going to be different than that of the general audience, and in fact out deep familiarity with the text may be a never completely penetrable barrier to our enjoyment of them.'

I've concluded I have to wholeheartedly agree with this statement after release of LoTR. I now have co-workers who fancy themselves as experts on middle earth and yet NONE have read the books. One remarked this week, "you mean there's books about the movie?"

I can only shake my head in confoundedness at his reaction should he read the book. I don't even want to think about that. But, I'm glad to be familiar with Middle Earth myself upon the viewing of PJ's films. I've concluded that like many time honored legends, the story varies a little with the teller of the story. And while we must acknowledge JRRT as the master of this story, it only adds to the greatness of the literature that another can tell the same tale with this many differences and still have an enthrallingly great work.

[Bear_in_RoseBear]

PJ's treatment of Faramir. I'm not sure that part can grow on me.

Hi there! :)

For me, the movie-Faramir could have been redeemed, if PJ had included just one scene where Faramir reveals his inner conflict... if we were to hear that Faramir realizes the danger of the Ring, it would bring it closer to the book version I think. Hopefully, that scene is in the cutting room and will make it onto the extended DVD. ;)

[Wneighbor]

So, what you're saying is that I'm going to have to wait a whole other year to see Faramir worked up the way I like him huh? Well, I'm not sure I like that. Afraid I have too much hastiness in my blood. LOL

[Bear_in_RoseBear]

Found some more

Hmm, it's disturbing how many of those fit me.

[carton253]

That's exactly what I'm saying... we just saw the beginning of Faramir's quality when he accept death for releasing Frodo...

Now, I have to admit that Faramir was an upstanding kind of a guy, but to me, in the Two Towers book, he was harsh and severe. Even when he let Frodo go, there has a restraint that is borne of desperate times.

I didn't see his true quality until he arrived back in Minas Tirath and was confronted by his father. That will be left to be told in ROTK.

There is alot of unfinished business in the Two Towers... Helm's deep won, but the battle not over. Isengard still in the process of being flooded, Faramir's story, and Gollum's decision to bring Frodo to Shelob...

Well, hastiness is only a sin when you are a Ent.

[carton253]

there was a restraint that is borne of desperate times.

Of course, that should read he has a restraint borne of desperate times.

It's hard to post when you are facing an impossible deadline at work. Drat work... it does get in the way of posting.

[Wneighbor]

Hi there right back at you! :-)

Once again, I agree wholeheartedly about Faramir. For me, in reading, the excellence of Faramir's character was when he said "...fear no more! I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory. No, I do not wish for such triumphs..." Faramir reveals in the conversation prior to this that he knows and fully understands the character and motivation of his brother. Without any condemnation he describes the backgroud and personality of Boromir which led him to his attack on Frodo. In such reflection he reveals his own contrasting views all the while showing the brotherly devotion.

I missed that. I hope it does come into play in RoTK. But IMHO Faramir deserved a more heroic treatment even in TTT. I know, others are happy with him. I wish to have seen the real stuff that we know of him.

[Wneighbor]

LOL - I hate those work deadlines that interfere with my life too!

Hate to be repeating too much. But, the part of Faramir in the written TT was when he figured out what Isilur's Bane was that Frodo carried and in his conversation much is said the reflects the difference in his and Boromir's character. I suppose I saw any harshness and severity was excused in reading precisely because of the desperate times in which he lived. Not the least of which was discovering the death of his brother and the hobbits not at first admitting anything about it.

But, after all that, even when he does discover the nature of the quest, he quickly denounces any thought of using any weapon of the enemy to try to gain good or glory. For me, he's displaying the wisdom that the weapons of the enemy will always destroy us even if we try to turn them to our purposes. Which, is exactly what the whole group at Elrond's council had tried to explain to Boromir.

Please excuse hastiness and passion. Not meaning to be argumentative, only love the work. Also love that so many people find so much in this - and that for each of us, there are different special places about which we have passionate reactions.

Careful about those deadlines. Mine are all finished for the year. Whew

[carton253]

In making a movie, I don't have luxury to tell everyone's story. What story am I telling. Do I tell every story in Middle Earth, or do I concentrate on one or two or at the outside three. So, I've chosen Frodo and the ring... and Aragorn growing into kinghood. In the Frodo and the ring story... what is the purpose of Faramir? To reveal yet another character and his story, or to put the ring in jeopardy?

As a writer (and not a very good one) those bottomline decisions have to be made. I've cut away some of my favorite writings for the story sakes.

I am not diminishing your regret over Faramir. My favorite character was wonderfully done, so I am happy. But, I can understand why Faramir was used only to put the ring in jeopardy. That's one of the two main stories that I am telling. And to introduce Faramir and all his sterling characters would take too much exposition. In this film with all its action, it doesn't need more exposition.

[carton253]

I wrote 939 before I read 938. Be passionate! And you aren't being argumentative at all.