Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

To: stainlessbanner
The South had done nothing wrong, and they had not violated their Constitutional agreement - it was the North who had breached their agreement.  In  the Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union the reason for secession was given: 

"We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof. ...  The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them."

Nothing hard to understand about that is there?  They then reassert the principle of the Declaration of Independence, that whenever any "form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government."   A principle that the 13 states a fought a war to secure.    And finally, they stated the obvious, "[w]e maintain that in every compact between two or more parties, the obligation is mutual; that the failure of one of the contracting parties to perform a material part of the agreement, entirely releases the obligation of the other.

Exercising the right of eminent domain (which the states had exercised in 1776), the South took control of  the Federal forts and arsenals within their borders.  After the secession of South Carolina President Lincoln voiced his sentiments regarding an invasion:

"What is ``invasion''? Would the marching of an army into South California, for instance, without the consent of her people, and in hostility against them, be coercion or invasion? I very frankly say, I think it would be invasion, and it would be coercion too, if the people of that country were forced to submit."
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech from the Balcony of the Bates House at Indianapolis, Indiana",  11 Feb 1861, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Roy P. Basler, ed., vol IV. p.195.

The South sent three men to meet with Lincoln, to pay the federal government for any property seized, yet Lincoln refused to meet with them. Despite his promises to the contrary, Lincoln invaded South Carolina, forcing the South to defend themselves.  Many claim that the South was the aggressor, would they assert that the woman shooting the rapist enetering her bedroom to be the aggressor?  The South stood upon the  well-established principle of public law that "the aggressor in a war is not the first who uses force, but the first who renders force necessary" [Henry E. Hallam, The Constitutional History of England from Henry VII to George II, (1827)].   Lincoln invaded a sovereign nation, instigated a war that needlessly killed over 623,000 men, women and children, black and white, soldier and civilian.  Lincoln waged war against the very principles of the Declaration and Constitution

226 posted on 09/27/2002 8:49:32 AM PDT by 4CJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies ]


To: 4ConservativeJustices; another cricket
4CJ, you are truly a treasure trove of knowledge. Consider the following quote:

"I am directed by the President of the United States to notify you to expect an attempt will be made to supply Fort-Sumpter with provisions only; and that, if such attempt be not resisted, no effort to throw in men, arms, or amunition, will be made, without further notice, or in case of an attack upon the Fort"

- Lincoln, message to Gov. Francis Pickens of South Carolina, CSA, April 6, 1861 by delivery of Robert S. Chew


Compare that "provisions only" message to what Lincoln himself had been planning for months in his correspondence to his leadership:

"Last night I received your letter giving an account of your interview with Gen. Scott, and for which I thank you. Please present my respects to the General, and tell him, confidentially, I shall be obliged to him to be as well prepared as he can to either hold, or retake, the forts [Sumter and Moultrie], as the case may require, at, and after the inaugeration."

- Lincoln, confidential letter to E. B. Washburne, Dec. 21, 1860

"Can you, with all the means now in your control, supply or re-inforce Fort Sumpter within that time?...If not, what amount of means and of what description, in addition to that already at your control, would enable you to supply and reinforce that fortress within the time?"

- Lincoln to Gen. Winfield Scott, March 9, 1861


227 posted on 09/27/2002 9:07:58 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 226 | View Replies ]

To: 4ConservativeJustices
Exercising the right of eminent domain (which the states had exercised in 1776), the South took control of the Federal forts and arsenals within their borders.

Eminent domain is the process of condemning and acquiring private land for public use, not public land for private use. Sumter was the property of the United States government and South Carolina had no legal claim to it.

"What is ``invasion''? Would the marching of an army into South California, for instance, without the consent of her people, and in hostility against them, be coercion or invasion? I very frankly say, I think it would be invasion, and it would be coercion too, if the people of that country were forced to submit."

We've had this arguement before, 4CJ, mainly because to take the quote out of context. In the very next sentence Lincoln went on to say the following:

"But if the government, for instance, but simply insists upon holding its own forts, or retaking those forts which belong to it, or the enforcement of the laws of the United States in the collection of duties on foreign importations, or even the withdrawl of mails from those portions of the country where the mails themselves are habitually violated; would any or all of those things be coerciion?"

The South sent three men to meet with Lincoln, to pay the federal government for any property seized, yet Lincoln refused to meet with them.

The south sent three men to get Lincoln to agree that they were an independent country. He refused to do that.

Lincoln invaded a sovereign nation, instigated a war that needlessly killed over 623,000 men, women and children, black and white, soldier and civilian.

The confederacy was not an independent nation and your saying so doesn't make it so. Neigher the United States nor any other nation recognized them as a soverign nation. They were a section of the United States in rebellion. Nothing more, nothing less.

262 posted on 09/27/2002 4:35:20 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 226 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson