Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/26/02 to ???

[stlnative]

NEW THREAD - PING WHOM EVER YOU LIKE - I DON'T PING ANYMORE - SORRY

[Devil_Anse]

No, I wasn't! Thank you for getting my point!

And guess what, Lakey! Before hearing it about 1000 times here, if an abduction had occurred in my home in the middle of the night, I wouldn't have had a thought about "preserving the crime scene!"

[jandji]

as far as condit and sueing for untrue statements published? notice condit hasn't elected to sue for any of these claims? if it aint true, easy money in libel court.

[Devil_Anse]

nicely honed facade

What a weird mixed metaphor. Stick with cooking; you're better at it.

As for supposed "patting each other on the back," you're projecting again. You don't pat anyone on the back?

You can knock yourselves out as apologists for Ricci, but in the end, whether he did this or not, you will not have accomplished enough to counterbalance his previous 29 years of his pathetic, wasted life.

[Devil_Anse]

The nerve of those "suits," thinking of profits!

Vocal objectors? Were you there picketing them for pulling the issues?

[scaredkat]

What does Ricci, Owens and Kingston have incommon?

[Devil_Anse]

You had a good point, I never thought of that, as to why they might have pulled the issues in the SLC area. Maybe they got a letter from some lawyer.

If they were sued for defamation, that would mean they were sued for damaging someone's reputation. I would think the worst place to spread a lie would be in the person's own community where the person actually has to function--and if that's the worst, that would mean the defamed person would win higher damages.

In answering the stories the NE put out, seems maybe Ed and Tom would possibly have been only making things worse--stimulating further discussion of it, publishing it MORE. If they did this, seems it could later be said that some of the damage to their reputations had been due to their own actions. That would lessen the damages that they might get.

There might very well be a lawsuit in the works.

There has to be preparation, and that's what some people will not see.

[jandji]

there isn't even circumstantial evidence. no forensic evidence. no motive, etc. The circumstantial evidence pointing to family coverup is huge, based on conflicting quotes reported in national media sources, many from live interviews with family.

[Devil_Anse]

See my Post 806.

How many times must I remind you that the Smart family is not some legal entity? The individuals would have to sue.

How can you say they don't sue, when the time allowable for filing suit has not run?

You remind me of the client who pays his lawyer good money for advice, then won't follow the advice.

It's not up to the allegedly defamed person to run out and rebut all that was said. It's up to them to first demand a retraction.

You don't know, and I don't know, whether anyone has sent a letter to the NE asking for a retraction. The NE considers the settlement of defamation suits a cost of doing business. If there is a settlement of a claim, we might not even know about it. But I think we would--b/c I don't think the NE would settle w/o the people having to first file a lawsuit, and we'd hear about that.

Then there's the public figure question...

If you don't believe a word of this, do me a favor and CALL A LAWYER IN YOUR OWN TOWN. I can only beat this dead horse for so long.

Or you could write to Angela Ricci. I'm sure she'll be checking out every potential lawsuit there might be in this thing. Ask her for her lawyer's number. Have a check ready.

[Devil_Anse]

It's not "easy money" for Gary Condit. He is a public figure. LOOK IT UP. Go look up Sullivan v. NY Times.

[jandji]

if NE was worried about liability, why publish in the first place?

[Devil_Anse]

there isn't even circumstantial evidence. no forensic evidence. no motive, etc.

You have just described the "case" against "the Smart clan," as to Elizabeth's disappearance.

[Devil_Anse]

What does Ricci, Owens and Kingston have in common?

You mean Richard Ricci, Angela Smart Owens' husband--what is his name--and who is Kingston?

[scaredkat]

I found this while doing some research on mines and found it to be very interesting.

Salt Lake Tribune Wall Collapse in Kingston-Owned Mine Kills 1 Second worker injured; death is mine site's 3rd BY GREG BURTON THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Copyright 1999, THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE A mine worker was killed and another injured late Thursday when a tunnel wall collapsed during a continuous mining operation at Bear Canyon Mine, a lucrative central Utah mine owned by the polygamous Kingston clan. Waiting for a shuttle car to return to a seam of coal, Alejandro Medina, 31, was crushed to death when a "rib" or tunnel wall fell, according to a preliminary accident report from the U.S. Department of Labor's Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA). Another miner, Miguel Sanchez, was treated and released at Castleview Hospital in Price for minor injuries. Medina's death is the third mining death at the Bear Canyon site since December 1996. The Kingston-mine deaths represent half of the six coal mine-related deaths in Utah since 1995, a number MSHA agents find troubling. "It is absolutely" a concern, said Ted Farmer, the regional MSHA supervisor of the government's Castledale office. "We are going to do a very thorough inspection of the mine," said Amy Louviere, MSHA spokesperson in Arlington, Va. "At this time, the main focus is on the cause." Almost two years ago, Kingston clan member Samuel Jenkins, 45, was crushed by a shuttle car during a cave-in at Bear Canyon Mine in Huntington Canyon. Jenkin's death was followed by a federal fatal accident report citing CW Mining (short for the late clan leader Charles W. Kingston) for a faulty roof control plan, inadequate cutting and failure to keep loose coal off the mining floor. Last year, his widow, Elaine Jenkins, and their six children sued CW Mining and two individuals for wrongful death and product liability. The lawsuit is pending. Five days before Christmas 1996, 46-year-old miner Harvey Albert Randall was killed at Bear Canyon when a rock slid off a coal-cutting machine, crushing him against another piece of mining equipment. The deaths of Randall and Jenkins will play a role in the latest federal investigation of Kingston mining operations and the death of Medina, Louviere said. "It is true that we have had that run [of three deaths in 2 1/2 years], but this line has been in operation since 1940, and it is also the third fatality since 1940," said Wendell Owen, a Bear Canyon supervisor and longtime Kingston confidant. Thursday's death "was an unusual accident," he said. Federal mine inspectors have temporarily closed the Bear Canyon operation and have begun an audit of the Kingston mine, a task routinely undertaken after a severe mining accident. MSHA agents from Utah, Virginia and Pennsylvania will inspect the tunnel where the accident occurred, check time slips and training forms for all employees and conduct interviews with supervisors and co-workers of Medina and Sanchez. CW Mining is also known as the Co-Op Mine, a business whose directors include John Daniel Kingston, recently convicted in 1st District Court for beating his daughter who was trying to leave a forced polygamous marriage to David Ortell Kingston, the girl's uncle and John Daniel's brother. David Ortell Kingston was sentenced to prison for up to 10 years last Friday for incest and unlawful sexual abuse. Joseph Kingston, another sibling, is also listed as an agent for Co-Op Coal Development Corp. In evaluating Thursday's fatality, MSHA will weigh previous violations and details of the recent death against the operator's willingness to correct violations and financial wherewithal. Routine violations can result in fines as large as $55,000. Fatality investigations, though, can result in a much larger "special assessment," Louviere said. According to the government's initial, but still not verified, report, 18 miners were inside Bear Canyon Mine No. 1 at 11 p.m. Thursday when a rib "bounced," a mining term for a geological quiver produced by pressure from the surrounding mountain. "It's like a small earthquake," said Nathan Atwood, a former supervisor at the Kingston mine who left the polygamous clan. "A bounce is the result of extracting coal out of the mountain . . . There is tremendous pressure and [the mountain] is trying to release it." The Kingstons have extracted millions of dollars of coal from their central Utah stronghold, financing lucrative land and mine developments, including the recent purchase of the adjacent and historic Hiawatha mine and the accompanying turn-of-the-century mining town, complete with paved roads, sewer, water, homes, machine shops, a grocery store, downtown business district, jail and cemetery. Atwood, who is not a polygamist, says when he worked at the mine, the company allegedly skirted federal standards, doctored time slips, failed to adequately train employees and hired undocumented workers. Federal audits conducted after the previous two fatalities reported no such violations. "We broke a lot of federal rules," Atwood said. "The Kingstons are very organized. They hire cheap labor . . . They do not train their people properly, that is all there is to it. They don't put the effort into it, and they have got a high turnover." "We are always trying to do all we can to make it safer," Owen said. "We consider even one [fatality] too many. We try to cooperate with MSHA safety rules." The tunnel where the accident occurred produces about 40 percent of the coal at Bear Canyon, Owen said. The tunnel will be closed for several days while inspectors complete interviews. A final report on the accident, including any potential federal violations or fines, is not expected for several weeks. About 60 people are employed at the mine. "We did close the entire mine today out of respect to the other workers," said Owen, who denied the mine is owned by the Kingstons. "This has nothing to do with polygamy."
*
I don't know what this means in my research but thought it was something to put on the back burner.

[Devil_Anse]

if NE was worried about liability, why publish in the first place?

Gee, Jandji, why do people ever do things for which they will later require a lawyer?

[Devil_Anse]

Wendell Owen. And I got the other one wrong, didn't I? It's Cynthia Smart Owens.

One's with an "s" and the other is without an "s"?

You mentioned Ricci, too. Is there a tie-in?

[jandji]

mock trial might lead us to the truth. i am a layperson concerning legal protocal, but just because he'd been working there that day doesn't show this wasn't his first burglary, or he came back at night to buglarize, or even as logically if he took cash and jewelery, he took it while he was working during the day.

[scaredkat]

Sorry, There is a tie in with Ricci. Its Carmen Ricci
I thought this article listed him as well. I will find that article but it states that Kingston and Ricci are to business names working(not working) together. It has to do with Kingstons Mountain Coin operation.

[scaredkat]

I also found it very interesting that I was researching this today and then listening to the news tonight they stated that two people were arrest. Todd Kingston and a Rural Flores. That name keeps popping up.

[scaredkat]

There where more interesting articles that I was reading on names, mines and the kingston Clan as they are called.

[Devil_Anse]

What I meant by "that wouldn't have been his first burglary," was that he had been convicted of burglary before. I believe he had his first burglary conviction when he was 18.