Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/26/02 to ???

Posted on 09/26/2002 12:34:48 AM PDT by stlnative

NEW THREAD - PING WHOM EVER YOU LIKE - I DON'T PING ANYMORE - SORRY


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: elizabethsmart
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 321-340341-360361-380 ... 1,041-1,044 next last
To: jandji
angela ricci passed her lie detector test, tom didn't.

What's the source for this? Angela? She would have to have gotten that from the police/FBI. Or are you saying the police are the source for the above statement?

I thought the police were less than trustworthy when it came to what was said about this case? So now all of a sudden their word is Gospel?

341 posted on 09/28/2002 9:09:53 AM PDT by Devil_Anse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 318 | View Replies]

Comment #342 Removed by Moderator

To: cherry
It seems people can find any scenario to make Ricci the perp, no matter how ambiguous but heavens, just don't draw anyone else respectable into the equation.

There it is in a nutshell. There is hostility on this board for "respectable" people, or respectable-appearing people. Why, I cannot imagine, since I really think everyone posting on this board is respectable themselves.

I guess it's more fun to defend a loser, than to defend people like the Smarts--b/c maybe some posters here think the Smarts would be rejecting of them if they ever met them. Do those posters think that had they met Rick, he would have turned out to be the greatest friend they ever made?

To me it seems people can, and do, find any scenario to keep from considering Ricci as having done this.

I have so strongly felt the need to counter the unrealistic rah-rah posts about Ricci, that I haven't even had time to suspect one of the Smarts lately--and I have periodically suspected Ed or Tom or even another one. But even if a relative of Elizabeth's is involved, that doesn't make all her other relatives bad people.

343 posted on 09/28/2002 9:36:02 AM PDT by Devil_Anse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 339 | View Replies]

Comment #344 Removed by Moderator

To: cookiedough
Doesn't sound like [the rest of Ricci's family] want anything to do with him...

Sure doesn't!

Phase One: Young man charged with serious crime. (Also beginning drug problem.) Charge begins in juvenile court, so the parent/custodian is forced to come to court and participate.

Phase Two: Young man now over legal age, no longer a minor. Charged with serious crime. Grandma, the young man's girlfriend, the girlfriend's mother, and two elderly aunts are present in court to do anything they can. Young man casts them tearful glances at times. Mysteriously, neither the young man's father nor mother is present. Don't hear much about them, maybe that's part of why the young guy is so screwed up. Grandma is scrambling to raise money for bail, and the young man asks her what is taking so long. (This is a description of a real scenario which took place in criminal court a couple weeks ago.)

Phase Three: Man, no longer young, charged with crime. Wife comes to court, maybe brings one of her relatives with her. Is ready to vouch for him if necessary. Hoping lawyer can get bond reduced so she can hock everything she and all her relatives own to bring her man home on bond.

Phase Four: He's at it again. Wife may or may not be able to make it, she has to go to work; their relationship is on the rocks, but they were trying to make it work, and she knows her little boys adore their dad.

Phase Five: He's done time by now. This time a girlfriend might show up. He would only have her come if he were sure his ex wouldn't be there; don't want any fighting outside in the hall. No relatives are interested b/c they are sick and tired of being hit up for loans, or being stolen from, so he can get drug money. Or tired of losing their real estate or cash when the man failed to appear for court and the bond was forfeited.

Phase Six: Man goes in and out of courtroom in his practiced jailhouse shuffle. Lawyer asks him what relative's name they can put down as a reference on some form. He can't think of anyone. His grandmother or other relative he'd been staying with has told him never to come back unless he makes sure not to use drugs ever again, and proves it. (One crack addict I know asked to put down her "wife's" name as the reference. She had many relatives, none wanted anything to do with her.)

Phase Seven: Man charged with serious crime. No one is there except a kindly AA or NA counselor, maybe, or a chaplain from a prison ministry.

Phase Eight: Man in court again for serious crime. No one in the "audience."

As they use drugs over and over, and get in trouble over and over, even their family finally gets fed up. If contacted, they say apologetically, yes, I know I'm his nearest kin, but I told him what he'd have to do if he ever wanted to come around my place again, and he hasn't even tried to do it.

345 posted on 09/28/2002 10:11:57 AM PDT by Devil_Anse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 338 | View Replies]

To: Devil_Anse
You can bet that needing money for drugs would have led to him committing property crimes and that armed bank robbery, though.

Like breaking into the Smart neighor's home while the family was sleeping and stealing from a bedroom HE HAD WORKED IN THE VERY SAME DAY!

346 posted on 09/28/2002 10:15:24 AM PDT by Sherlock
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 293 | View Replies]

To: partialpressures
"He was in bed with me all night and we woke up together," Angela Ricci told ABC's "Good Morning America," adding that the FBI told her she passed a polygraph test with "flying colors."

Angela's good friend and neighbor Andy Thurber said in a television interview he knows Angela was out on Somas the night of the kidnapping and she would have no way of knowing if Rick left the trailer or not. He said Angela told police she was sure he didn't leave then went around the neighborhood and asked the neighbors if anyone saw him leave so she would be sure there would be noone countering her testimony.

347 posted on 09/28/2002 10:20:53 AM PDT by Sherlock
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 303 | View Replies]

To: Sherlock
Oh, but don'tcha know, Sherlock, that bit about Angela asking neighbors if they'd seen Rick leave, showing that she had no idea if he'd been home or not....why, we have ONLY the word of Carma Tolman on that!! DO YOU CALL THAT PROOF??? The woman is obviously a liar! And of course Angela is obviously incapable of lying!

These things are incontrovertible truths, in spite of the fact we know Angela has done dishonest stuff like forging a check, whereas we've never heard of anything dishonest Carma Tolman has done.

And don't forget, Angela passed her polygraph because Angela said so!!
348 posted on 09/28/2002 10:42:10 AM PDT by Devil_Anse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 347 | View Replies]

To: cookiedough
Hey, that's it, Cookiedough! Ricci was kind to the pregnant woman b/c he let her lie down!!

ROFL!!!

After all, a person wouldn't want her feet swelling just before she took a shot to the head.
349 posted on 09/28/2002 10:51:06 AM PDT by Devil_Anse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 338 | View Replies]

To: Devil_Anse
Knock it off.
350 posted on 09/28/2002 10:52:40 AM PDT by Sidebar Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 344 | View Replies]

To: Bella
angela ricci passed her lie detector test, tom didn't.

"So very true..." Please explain to us how you know that this is very true. You sound quite certain. Have you spoken to any official about the polygraphs, or seen the results?

351 posted on 09/28/2002 11:24:39 AM PDT by Devil_Anse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 335 | View Replies]

To: Bella
Looks like someone in the family is willing to tell all...

Who in the family does it look like, is willing to tell all?

You made this post in response to a comment by Varina praising the Owens article you posted. What is it in that article that makes you say it looks like someone in the family is willing to tell all?

352 posted on 09/28/2002 11:26:34 AM PDT by Devil_Anse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 302 | View Replies]

To: sandude; Bella
Yes, Bella. As Sandude asked you, who needs to open their eyes? I would like to know, too.
353 posted on 09/28/2002 11:28:03 AM PDT by Devil_Anse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 307 | View Replies]

To: Sherlock
Andy Thurber said that he had previously seen Angela bob her head in her supper. No one has said Angela was abusing Soma the night of the kidnapping. If you can find differenty, I'll concede.

What I see being posted is trying to figure who is the biggest sinner involved and trying to peg the abduction on them. That could very well be the case. I don't know, and no one here knows. Ricci was a habitual violator. Angela is of a low socioeconomic environment. Tom has 'issues' as his family has said.

The problem with this way of thinking is that we are all sinners. Some not as deeply as others, but everyone on earth is a sinner. I'm sure even Elizabeth's mother would say she has sinned and is remorseful.

It's not a score card with the lowest scumbag being guilty.
354 posted on 09/28/2002 11:42:35 AM PDT by partialpressures
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 347 | View Replies]

To: All
Here's a change of topic......

According to the Smart family's website, there have been no searches scheduled by the Elizabeth Smart Search Center since September 14. Has local volunteer activity in this case suddenly come to a standstill?

355 posted on 09/28/2002 11:46:51 AM PDT by freedox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 353 | View Replies]

To: jandji
this was when liz was barefoot, and the "kidnapper" was wearing shoes and a hat. liz has no breasts, she doesn't slump,

Where you there that night? I wasn't either but I've done some thinking on the subject and have a possible scenario. The way I've always felt it happened was that MK saw the back of the perps hand as he was pulling Elizabeth out of bed. The perp at this point probably said something to Elizabeth to make her believe that she wasn't going to be gone long and she wouldn't be hurt. MK feigned sleep at that point and waited until they were out of the room before she got up. As she was leaving her room to sound the alarm she saw the perp roughly helping Elizabeth down the stairs. This is the point were MK saw them together for the first time. Elizabeth had her shoes on and they were going down stairs. Even if Elizabeth was standing erect going down the stairs the perp might have been slumped over a bit.

I think that Elizabeth may have hesitated at the top of the stairs which caused the abductor to issue a very strong threat. MK heard that threat and believed it would have gotten her sister killed if she told her parents. There were two conflicting messages that MK had to deal with. The one stating that Elizabeth wouldn't be gone long and the second message that was a clear threat. I've always wondered why they haven't released the text of what the perp said that night. What clue would there be in that wording that would cause the police to withhold that information?

Perhaps I'm a die hard but I'm not ready to give up on the idea of Richard Ricci being the man who entered the Smarts home that night. I certainly don't think MK's eyewitness account of the perps height clears him. It's not like Elizabeth and the abductor were standing for a photo so that MK could tell exactly. Things were happening fast and Liz was being moved quickly down the stairs.

We also have been told that the voice of the perp was at least familiar to MK. I'm sure that LE has put all of the people that MK knew through the hopper. For sure Ricci's name would pop out of that process and perhaps others we are not aware of. It has been reported that Richard did not have dark hair on the backs of his hands. The one picture (wedding) that we have seen is inconclusive. He certainly had dark hair on his arms but it is not obvious as to his hands. It is also important to remember that the lighting may have not been good, the back of the perps hands may have been right in MK's face as he reached into the bed, and this is a 9 year old girl who was waking from a sleeping state.

356 posted on 09/28/2002 11:53:53 AM PDT by sandude
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 315 | View Replies]

To: jandji
angela ricci passed her lie detector test, tom didn't.

Tom's was inconclusive. That is not a failing grade. In my business I work with people who have high security clearances. A friend of mine had to take his polygraph test four times in order to get a passing grade. The reason they administered it that many times was because they had thoroughly investigated him and he was squeaky clean but there was a bureaucratic rule that said he had to pass. My friend was a humble honest man who was simply nervous about the process involved. I personally don't take much stock in the damned machines and neither do the courts. A compulsive liar can pass them with ease and an innocent but nervous citizen will fail or get an inconclusive result. I believe that future historians will look at our use of lie detector machines as laughable and foolish.

357 posted on 09/28/2002 12:03:35 PM PDT by sandude
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 318 | View Replies]

To: All
I have been reading this thread for a while now and was wondering what is everyones total theory on the Smart case considering everything we know at this point.

I thought it would be interesting to spark some new debate and learn everyones theory point by point.

Here are the main questions:


1.) WHO IS INVOLVED
(this could be a specific name or just a general type of person like a trusted community member, a stalking pedophile or family member. Explain why you think your theory is the most plausible)

2.) MOTIVE
(what do you think was the perpetrators main motive and why. Examples: sex, money, drugs, burglary gone bad, a grudge or a combination of several motives. Please explain why your theory is the most plausible)

3.) HOW MUCH OF WHAT'S BEEN TOLD OF MK'S EYEYWITNESS TESTIMONY DO YOU THINK IS THE TRUTH AND WHAT IS FICTION? HOW MUCH OF THE KIDNAPPER DO YOU THINK MK SAW IF YOU THINK IT WAS AN ACTUAL KIDNAPPING AND NOT A BOGUS STORY INVENTED BY THE SMARTS?
(examples: I believe her story 100% or I don't think a gun was really used or MK isn't lying but was confused about what she saw or Uncle Tom told MK what to say or the Smarts told MK what to say etc.. Please explain why your theory is the most plausible.)

4.) HOW DID THE KIDNAPPER ESCAPE WITH ELIZABETH?
(some examples: on foot, running to a get away car parked a block away on the street, an getaway driver drove up with the getaway car and they drove away on the main street, or the getaway car was waiting hidden in the hills in back of the house etc. Please explain what your theory is the most plausible theory.)

5.) HOW DO YOU THINK THIS CRIME WAS PULLED OFF?
(This answer will probably be the longest and is sorta a summary of the other 4 answers. Start with the planning beforehand if you think there even was planning involved, to the execution of the kidnapping on the 5th, to the kidnappers coverup. Say what do you think happened to Elizabeth.)
358 posted on 09/28/2002 12:09:38 PM PDT by snowstorm12
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: partialpressures
"What I see being posted is trying to figure who is the biggest sinner involved and trying to peg the abduction on them......The problem with this way of thinking is that we are all sinners."

Yours is an incredibly insightful post, partialpressures. I was reminded of an exchange that took place some weeks ago (Sept. 8/9) between myself and cookiedough. She had made reference to M. Scott Peck's book, "People of the Lie," and had made the observation herself that "evil does masquerade as light." Intrigued by her statement, I did some research and found a quote from Peck's book, wherein he describes those who are "evil":

(Page 75) "Utterly dedicated to preserving their self-image of perfection, they are unceasingly engaged in the effort to maintain the appearance of moral purity. They are acutely sensitive to social norms and what others might think of them. They seem to live lives that are above reproach. The words "image", "appearance" and "outwardly" are crucial to understanding the morality of 'the evil'. While they lack any motivation to be good, they intensely desire to appear good. Their goodness is all on a level of pretense. It is in effect a lie.......It often happens then that 'the evil' may be recognized by its very disguise. Because they are such experts at disguise, it is seldom possible to pinpoint the maliciousness of 'the evil'. The disguise is usually impenetrable."

I think that cookiedough said a mouthful when she made the observation that "evil does masquerade as light." I think your post hits the nail on the head as well.

359 posted on 09/28/2002 12:22:00 PM PDT by freedox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 354 | View Replies]

To: freedox
According to the Smart family's website, there have been no searches scheduled by the Elizabeth Smart Search Center since September 14. Has local volunteer activity in this case suddenly come to a standstill?

Sept. 14 was about the time that Ed stopped appearing in public - haven't seen any recent articles, either.

360 posted on 09/28/2002 12:22:44 PM PDT by Neenah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 355 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 321-340341-360361-380 ... 1,041-1,044 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson