Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/17/02 to ???

[Utah Girl]

Just thought I would start a new thread.

[Jolly Green]

Do you think Jolly Green was a perfect child growing up and did exactly as he was told?

Well said!

[Jolly Green]

No doubt. That's probably why he's so weird now.

Yeah, but you're OK, NOT!

[varina davis]

You are sick!

Just a bit under the weather, thank you, JG. Little sinus problem, but it should clear up soon.

[Devil_Anse]

Well, Sherlock, we don't really know how Varina's kids are raised. At least they know where to find her if they need her--by the computer, the same place my kids know they can always find me!

You do make a good point about what we know of Elizabeth. I mean, if people are going to take on faith the wonderful things said about Ricci in his obituary and the eulogy, why not take on faith the wonderful things said about poor Elizabeth? Besides, I mean, how bad can a person really be at age 14? It's not like she was reported to be out beating the dog with a baseball bat, like that kid Luke Woodhouse, I think his name was, who was not much older than Elizabeth (one of the school shooters from a few yrs ago.)

I continue to believe Elizabeth was just an average (intellectually, apparently above average) young girl, unless I hear something specific that says otherwise.

[varina davis]

I mean, how bad can a person really be at age 14?

Who said she was bad??!! She's probably very sweet and normal and I feel very, very sorry for her if she felt she had to get away.

[Devil_Anse]

Look, what you're saying about her maybe "feeling she had to get away" is not outside the realm of possibility.

Let's suppose that's exactly what happened. Who in their right mind would still be sheltering her now? And, at the risk of drawing more comments from Lakey about the best color of pajamas to run away in, when have we ever heard that any of Elizabeth's clothes, other than the shoes, were missing? I can't see her just leaving abruptly, w/o maybe taking clothes, or female sanitary supplies, a ring perhaps, anything--haven't you ever had to go somewhere and had to wait while a teenaged girl got ready? They don't even go to Taco Bell without at least taking about 3 different shades of lipstick. And we never heard that anything except the shoes was missing.

If she was "desperate to get out," why didn't she run away from school? School was still in session when she disappeared, you know.

[Sherlock]

The 1st Article of Faith of the LDS Church says "We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost" - totally contradicting your statement. Where did you get this hogwash?

This says God is eternal. It does not say you believe Jesus is eternal. I just read over your website and it nowhere says Jesus is eternal and that He is God and that he created all things. This is the Christian belief and teaching of the bible.

The Church actively participates in some groups

I'm talking about spiritual outreaches, like Billy Graham crusades. Just about every Christian Church in town participates but not the Mormon Church. Do you believe all Christian churches are side by side, or don't you think you have some higher revelation that makes you different from the non-LDS churches. Do you freely worship in non-LDS churches and with non-LDS that are Christians?

[scaredkat]

http://www.dcso.com/recently_mssing.asp

Condon,
Stephanie
Elizabeth

Condon, Stephanie Elizabeth

White Female juvenile, 14 years of age. 5'2"
120 pounds. Blonde hair, Blue Eyes.

SUBJECT/INCIDENT: MISSING PERSON
DATE OF INCIDENT: 10-31-98 --
TIME OF INCIDENT: 0130
INCIDENT LOCATION: RESIDENTIAL AREA OF TRI CITY, MYRTLE CREEK
DOUGLAS COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE

CASE #: 98-6083

Stephanie Condon, age 14, of Riddle Oregon was reported missing under suspicious circumstances. Ms. Condon was baby sitting twin two year old girls at a Tri City home last night. When the parent of the infants arrived home at around 1:30 am, Ms. Condon was not inside the home. Both infants were located unharmed inside the home. This is out of character for Condon. Her disappearance is suspect and under active investigation.

Stephanie is believed to have been wearing pajamas and no shoes.

She has been entered into the NCIC system as an endangered missing person.

Anyone having information concerning the whereabouts of Ms. Condon is asked to contact Detective Joe Perkins, Douglas County Sheriff's Office.

---

HAVE YOU SEEN THIS HANDGUN?


NARRATIVE:

The Douglas County Sheriff’s Office is attempting to locate a handgun that may be involved in the disappearance of a missing juvenile, Stephanie Elizabeth Condon. The gun is described as a .38 caliber revolver with a two inch barrel, marketed by European American Armory (EAA). The serial number for this gun is #1516967.

The gun may have been sold in a tavern or lounge in the Myrtle Creek area. This handgun was possibly sold by Dale Hill in the Myrtle Creek area. Investigators would like to talk to anyone that is aware of this sale, knows the current location of the gun, or has seen Mr. Hill in possession of this gun. Investigators know this handgun was purchased in Roseburg on September 13, 1996, and was owned by Hill. Anyone with information regarding this handgun is asked to contact the Douglas County sheriff’s office 541-957-2099, or 541-440-4458.

As in the earlier public request for help regarding Mr. Hill's Ford pick-up, we are asking anyone who may have seen him in the area of 161 Henry Street, in the Tri City area, during the evening of October 30th into the morning hours of October 31, 1998, to contact our office. We are interested in talking to anyone who has seen Hill or his vehicle on any back road or secluded area since the time of Stephanie's disappearance.

---

Hill,
Dale Wayne

Hill, Dale Wayne

DOB 02- 01-70
6'1", 175lbs, Brown hair, Green eyes
Wears gold metal framed glasses.

We are interested in talking to anyone who has seen Hill or his vehicle on any back road or secluded area since the time of Stephanie Condon's disappearance.....

Vehicle: 1991 Ford F-150 4x4 extra cab. Maroon over red over maroon, with gray and black graphics stripes. OREGON LICENSE 986-APQ. Sunroof, & visor over windshield. Louvered 5th wheel style tailgate.

[Sherlock]

But if she was anxious to get away...

This doesn't even merit a response. I'm certainly not surprised that you had this problem with your children but the facts have obviously borne out this family is on a little higher plain than what you seem to be aware of, varina. I'm truly sorry for you and more sorry for your children growing up under your kind of rotten influence.

[Sherlock]

Well, Sherlock, we don't really know how Varina's kids are raised.

I beg to disagree with you, Devil, but varina's statements, attitudes, and inability to deal with reality speak volumes of the influence she was on her children when they were in her custody.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Sherlock, you need to take a time out, and go do your theological high-horsing on the Religion forum. It's out of place here.

[Sherlock]

Sherlock, you need to take a time out, and go do your theological high-horsing on the Religion forum. It's out of place here.

Why is that, are you Mormon or a non-Christian?

[GovernmentShrinker]

You seem to be missing the point.

[Devil_Anse]

Wow, what took you to Douglas County, Oregon?

It sounds like they had that geeky-looking suspect, Hill, in custody, when they put out those bulletins. After 4 years, I sure hope they figured out whether there was evidence that he abducted that girl or not!

Yes, I saw the part about how Stephanie was believed to be wearing pajamas when she disappeared. To me, that speaks of quick, forcible removal of her from the home where she was babysitting. Just as the apparent taking only of the pj's she was wearing, and shoes, tends to contradict any theory that Elizabeth left on her own.

So, does the fact that this info is still out on the web mean that they never found this poor Condon girl's body? I hope they at least found the person who did this to her.

[Utah Girl]

Do you freely worship in non-LDS churches and with non-LDS that are Christians?

I can tell you many stories of not only worshipping with other faiths, but of cooperation with other faiths here in Utah. One that comes to mind is a few years ago when the Catholic church didn't have enough room for all the Catholics who wanted to go to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve. Somehow one of the LDS bishops heard about the dilemma, and got permission for them to hold Midnight Mass in the Provo Tabernacle (probably seats 2000). The mass was standing room only that night, I know because I was there. It was awe-inspiring to see two faiths in our community come together.

And no, the LDS church does not hold spiritual outreaches like Billy Graham does. But we do have General Conference twice a year. The Conference Center was built a few years ago, it holds about 21,000 people. Anyone can go, I'm sure we could find you a ticket, or you could stand in line waiting for the empty seats. There is no check at the door for religious affiliation. Plus, General Conference is broadcast not only in Utah over the local NBC affiliate KSL, but it is on radio, and many areas of the country either have it broadcast through their local TV stations, or broadcast it at their LDS meetinghouses. Again, anyone is more than welcome to listen in. They have even set up so that one can listen over the Internet. Many religious leaders of other faiths are invited to General Conference (they get the prime seats too, but I digress...:)

[Sherlock]

You seem to be missing the point.

The point is there has to be a reason you're so bothered by the fact I've answered some questions on this subject. I've certainly overlooked plenty of posts by you I considered to be irrelevant to the thread or of no value and have never felt compelled to give you my opinion on your posts one way or another.

[Utah Girl]

And I seemed to have missed the important point about General Conference. It comprises four sessions that have the prophet of the Lord speak, the 12 apostles, and other general leaders of the LDS church. That would include the women leaders of the Relief Society, the Primary, and the Young Women organizations.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Your post #287 was certainly not about "answering questions". Constant religious bickering on unrelated threads is annoying. That's why FR has a religion forum, and a rule against "bashing" any religion (and your constant criticisms of and challenges to the Mormon religion is reaching the bashing level).

[Devil_Anse]

I looked back near the beginning of this thread, and saw where 4 posts were removed, Nos. 41, 42, 45, and 46.

I assume that since the moderator removed them, they wouldn't want them repeated here, but morbid curiosity makes me want to know what they were about, and I can't remember.

Would someone please send me a private reply to tell me what those posts were about? Surely the moderator wouldn't mind someone doing that? For one thing, I'm pretty sure none of the posts were mine, but if they were, I'd like to know about it!

[Devil_Anse]

Perhaps Sherlock's exchanges lately with some of the LDS posters here might be characterized as off-topic, or even harsh criticism, but they still don't hold a candle to some of the stuff about the LDS I've seen some other posters put on these threads! And those other posters' posts were left on!