Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/17/02 to ???

[Utah Girl]

Just thought I would start a new thread.

[Devil_Anse]

About whether it was a kidnapping--

My speculations went in the opposite direction, at first thinking only of the abductor. Then as I saw all the doubletalk about Mary Katherine and what she saw, and began thinking about how apparently neither girl screamed or even gasped, I started to wonder. If Elizabeth went without making a fuss, though, I believe it was b/c she was fooled or conned into thinking she'd be back very soon. If she left w/o thinking she'd be back VERY soon, then I think a young man or teenage boy is involved. However they got her out of the house, it's clear that their intentions were terribly misjudged by her immature mind.

One other possibility is that there never was an abductor, that Elizabeth was leaving and told Mary Katherine what to say when she was discovered missing. That seems unlikely b/c I think Mary K. would have broken down long ago. Even if Elizabeth went out of the house with no help from anyone, I'm sure she'd have had someplace she planned to go, and it that's what happened, whoever had offered to shelter her was apparently a snake in the grass--and naive Elizabeth was no match for this person's evil and cunning.

Even if she planned to run away, even if she went semi-willingly, there is just no way Elizabeth is to blame for this thing, and I'm sure she's paid dearly for any misplaced trust she had.

[Devil_Anse]

Since we know that Mary K. had another room available to her to sleep in, then if Elizabeth planned to run away, wouldn't she have made sure to bribe or fool or persuade her little sister to sleep in her own room that night? That way, no one would have known what Elizabeth was doing.

[Sherlock]

Doubt it would be MK that would keep it quiet.

If this were true I don't think Ed & Lois would be off on a cruise on the first week of school, I think rather they'd be home coaching her on what the kids were asking her at school and making sure she didn't tell them anything they didn't want her to tell.

[Devil_Anse]

they'd be home coaching her

Good point, if they have Mary K. in some kind of thrall, they wouldn't want to leave her where someone could get to her and de-program her! Wouldn't it be great if the Smarts really weren't on a cruise, but were going somewhere where Elizabeth was?

[varina davis]

Maybe Spencer Dixon is on that cruise with Ed & Lois?

That would be cozy.

[varina davis]

Good point, if they have Mary K. in some kind of thrall, they wouldn't want to leave her where someone could get to her and de-program her!

According to all the LDS defenders on this thread, Mormon children do exactly as they are told and do not very from the straight path of life. They are sheltered and happy and without hormones. Thus, I don't think they'd have to worry about de-programming.

[Sherlock]

Wouldn't it be great if the Smarts really weren't on a cruise, but were going somewhere where Elizabeth was? This does fall in the realm of things that are possible and it would certainly be a happy ending but if you look at it as something you're considering betting on it wouldn't register on the scale of possibility.

[varina davis]

Very = vary

[Utah Girl]

That's not a fair characterization of what we've said.

[Sherlock]

Mormon children do exactly as they are told...

Do you think Jolly Green was a perfect child growing up and did exactly as he was told?

[varina davis]

Pretty close.

[varina davis]

Do you think Jolly Green was a perfect child growing up and did exactly as he was told?

No doubt. That's probably why he's so weird now.

[Utah Girl]

Whatever.

[Jolly Green]

The Jesus of the New Testament is an eternal member of the Godhead which LDS denies.

The 1st Article of Faith of the LDS Church says "We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost" - totally contradicting your statement. Where did you get this hogwash?

The Jesus of the New Testament would not have you in your own little group not affiliating with and working together with other Christian groups worldwide. This exclusiveness, secrecy, and men trying to draw men after themselves is a real bad sign.

You don't know what your are talking about on this point either. The Church participated in a prayer breakfast at the White House following 9/11 with many other churches. The Church actively participates in some groups, particularly if they are welfare oriented such as aid to Afghanistan and not in others. It does not partipate in those debating theology. There is nothing particularly secretive about their participation.

You might want to stick to pontificating about your own church since you obviously know very little about the Mormon church. You might also want to take it somewhere else. This thread is about the Elizabeth Smart case.

[Utah Girl]

But I was the perfect child growing up... :)

[Sherlock]

Don't you think it would be more logical to judge Elizabeth by what all the principals in her life have said about her instead of how your children were apparently raised. All her teachers, family, etc. that have talked about her have given pretty much the same story. Elizabeth did have completely different parenting from your type of influence.

[Devil_Anse]

They are sheltered and happy and without hormones.

Well, I doubt they are without hormones. But at least they set a goal of waiting till marriage to indulge their hormonal impulses. Nobody's perfect, but they sound a lot more together than, say, my friend's daughter, who has two children and isn't even 20 yet. Yes, she's married, but she got married after living with the man and becoming pregnant. Her last professed religion? Wiccan, but that was several years ago.

[Sherlock]

But I was the perfect child growing up... :)

I believe that. And sandude.....................but not Jolly Green.

[Jolly Green]

According to all the LDS defenders on this thread, Mormon children do exactly as they are told and do not very from the straight path of life. They are sheltered and happy and without hormones. Thus, I don't think they'd have to worry about de-programming.

Another distortion varina??? Not a single person on these threads has ever claimed such nonsense. You are sick!

[varina davis]

It is hard to justify this a "real" kidnapping. What's the motive? No request for ransom. The Smarts have no enemies -- so everyone claims.

If the motive was simply sex, there are surely hundreds of young girls in Utah who would be hundreds of times easier to kidnap. Yes, she's pretty, but she's not an irrisistable goddess!

But if she was anxious to get away, she just might have gone with someone who was available to help her out.

Family and friends continue to "search," but it seems as though LE has not been very excited about the "searches" for a long time. Maybe they don't think there is anything to find?