Elizabeth Smart thread, September 5, 2002-?

[landerwy]

Utahgirl is quite correct in her assesment of the area. There is a rapid rise in elevation in the area and there are some creeks that go through in different places.

[Palladin]

Yes, I knew it was hilly. Just the name Federal Heights indicates a sharp rise in elevation. Of course, these things cannot be seen on a flat street map. Do you know of any websites with topographical maps?

[landerwy]

Not really but I will see what I can find.

[Jolly Green]

Might it be correct to say that at some points the two neighborhoods touch on one another?

No

[Utah Girl]

Might it be correct to say that at some points the two neighborhoods touch on one another?

You know, I just realized something. Foothill Blvd would separate the two area. Foothill Blvd is a four lane street that is very busy. So no, the two neighborhoods wouldn't touch on one another.

[Devil_Anse]

All right, already. We get it. We get it! Dixon was a bishop, though not in the same ward as the Smarts. A 13-yr-old girl has ALLEGEDLY come forward and said Dixon fondled her breasts and hind end. Dixon is now an ex-bishop. Dixon didn't live all that far from the Smarts, that is, he didn't live in another city, he was really just in a different neighborhood of the same city. Judging by the maps on that forum you only let me lurk on, it looks like Dixon may have lived and/or worked near either the Smart grandparents or the Francom grandparents, I can't remember which w/o going back to that forum.

[Reminder to Palladin: don't forget presumption of innocence as to Dixon.]

Yes, Elizabeth clearly visited both sets of her grandparents. The Smart grandparents have been on TV and said so. As for the Francom ones, a news story said Lois took the kids to Grandpa Francom's house every day for months up till he died at the end of May 2002. Any out-of-town relatives for Myron Francom's funeral would have been Francoms, not Smarts, right? So which side of Elizabeth's family is supposed to be the creepy suspect one? Refresh my memory, I forget.

So, yes, Elizabeth could have run across Dixon, if Dixon really lives that close to her grandparents' home. Yes. Yes. Yes! It is quite possible.

Do you realize how many other adult males, probably including one or two other Mormon clergy, must have lived even CLOSER to Elizabeth than Dixon? Also, as Utah Girl pointed out, there were something like 19-25 sex offenders in the registry, listed in ELIZABETH'S zip code.

All of what you are suggesting is plausible, but it has not yet gone farther than that. In other words, sorry, but there's still more circumstantial evidence that we know of to implicate Ricci, than there is to implicate Dixon. We know for sure Ricci knew Elizabeth personally.

You are on this thread talking to Mormons, Salt Lake City residents, ex-Mormons, and ex-Utah residents. They are all trying to tell you, OVER AND OVER again, that what you are suggesting is possible, but so far, that's all. They are trying to familiarize you with the specifics of Mormon behavior and of the length of the blocks in Salt Lake City. I see absolutely NO SIGN that you have listened to more than about 1% of what they have been saying. Look, I'm as far away from Utah as I believe you are--why would we outlanders be able to know better than they do about ward customs and the length of the frikkin blocks in SLC?

And I can't resist addressing the trademark "Palladin" part of some of your posts: your sanctimonious suggestion that, to paraphrase, the "rich" wards don't like to associate with the "poor" wards. GET OVER IT. How many homeless people did you invite to dinner today? Bet any Mormon, rich or poor, plucked off the street at random, can outdo you on that score.

[sandude]

There were several interparish activities, mostly for the youth, like CYO basketball, and weekend dances.

You bring up a good point. In my area there are three stakes made up of about 24 wards. The youth dances are generally attended by young people from the entire area. These are limited to youth ages 14 to 18. I don't think they have inter stake dances in Salt Lake because there are so many young people in any given stake.

Former Bishop Dixon could have acted as a chaperon at some of the dances in his stake. That duty rotates from ward to ward within a stake and youth leaders within the ward take on the responsibility when it is their turn. The Bishop of a ward is considered a youth leader and usually the Bishop or one of his two counselors are in attendance. This assignment usually rotates as well. Usually about once a year a member of the Bishopric will have a turn to chaperon a dance.

So would there be a chance that Elizabeth could have attended a dance that former Bishop Dixon chaperoned? Not likely because she was only 14 and wouldn’t have attended very many dances. It is also not likely that they would have had any inter stake dances. I’m sure that if Elizabeth ever attended a dance in Dixon’s stake that the family has alerted LE to this. The family’s desire to bring her abductor to justice will not be swayed by anybody’s position in the church.

[Palladin]

The family’s desire to bring her abductor to justice will not be swayed by anybody’s position in the church.

This is good to know, and what I expected. Their frustration must be at a high level now. So many ups and downs in the investigation. And still no sign of the beautiful child beloved by so many.

I would not make such a big deal about Dixon if he had not been caught molesting a girl of the same age. I realize that Elizabeth, with all her extracurricular activities, and especially the harp concerts, had a rather high profile among the Mormon girls of her area. So many, many men have seen her and noticed her talents.

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, and maybe the police have already established that this Dixon fellow had an ironclad alibi. I just hope they are investigating him as thoroughly as the forum sleuths are.

It is said that law enforcement people come to these forums looking for ideas, information, maybe even suspects. I don't see that there is any harm done in our speculation.

Of course there is a presumption of innocence IN A COURT OF LAW. But the first amendment allows us to have our own ideas about any criminal case, and to discuss them freely on the internet.

Thank God for our freedoms in this wonderful country!

[Devil_Anse]

"You seem so hellbent on keeping the two neighborhoods separate (but equal, of course.)"

I read your post again and came across this gem, which I had not much noticed. That is the most nauseating bit of hyporcrisy and snobbishness I've read on this forum to date. I would LOVE to know how many different races and socioeconomic groups are represented in your neighborhood.

I went to school with a guy from Harrisburg. The city where we were in school was pretty thoroughly mixed as to race. He complained one time, saying, "geez, you people live right next door to those people of another race." (And he didn't say it that politely, either.) Then he said,
"at least where I come from [Harrisburg, Pennsylvania], we don't have to live right next to them."

[varina davis]

I would find it very unlikely that they had any contact because of church activities.

One more time.....There does NOT have to be a friendship between the Smarts and Dixon OR a common ward membership, for Dixon to have met Elizabeth on the street, running, jogging, whatever. Or simply visiting her grandparents.

They could have exchanged hello's and chit chat without Liz every thinking there could be hidden danger involved. Might have even exchange an e-mail or two.

She didn't have to KNOW him personally for him to see her a young, pretty girl he'd like to KNOW better.

[scaredkat]

sorry to cut in about blocks and sizes but utah is very diferent than other states. Some of our blocks go on and on the streets. Where I use to live there where 46 house on it and we all had big yards and even on the sides. You can not in noway say how big a neighborhood is. Now as for the blocking that is used, its just counting 100 east next block would be 200 east so looking at it that way we count 100 to 199 are address on buildings making one block. All address no matter where, started from square one-Temple square and branch out east west south and north. Salt lake is known for the largest (block wise) and straightest streets (meaning we dont have any circle streets. I went to LA a couple of years ago and man oh man was it ever confusing to us, we would go down a street thinking we were going some where and we would end up in the same place that we started from. You will never be able to do that here.

[Devil_Anse]

"Might even exchange an e-mail or two."

Make up your mind--did Dixon encounter Elizabeth in person on the street or at a church function, or did they meet through the computer?

No, there didn't have to be a friendship btw the Smarts and Dixon, etc., for Dixon to have met Elizabeth on the street, running, jogging, or whatever, or while she visited her grandparents. So then, the current discussion of whether they had acquaintances in common seems to be superfluous and irrelevant, all of a sudden.

But I thought that the supposed commonality between this alleged sex offender Dixon, and Elizabeth--commonality as to hypothetical church functions, family visits, etc.--was the basis for your suspecting him? Now you seem to say it's not. You seem to say, hey, there's at least one guy in SLC who may have molested a young girl. His name is Dixon. Therefore, he might be it!

Well, DUH!

You certainly don't idealize SLC, do you? So is it safe to assume there was MORE than one person in SLC who may have molested a young girl? What about the other ones?

[Palladin]

Hi, Illbay. I see that your latest suspension will be lifted tomorrow. Then you can go back to posting your nastiness under your original name.

ROFL!

[varina davis]

But I thought that the supposed commonality between this alleged sex offender Dixon, and Elizabeth--commonality as to hypothetical church functions, family visits, etc.--was the basis for your suspecting him? Now you seem to say it's not.

I've never once said that -- quite the opposite. I have no way of knowing if this person is in any way involved (he could be innocent of the current charges for all anyone on this board knows for sure), but I've always wondered if she wasn't stalked by SOMEONE who maybe spotted her jogging or whatever, someone "trusted" in the community.

[Palladin]

Thanks for the info, skaredcat. True, I am basing my block estimates on east coast cities. I have never traveled out west, where you have those wide open spaces.

[varina davis]

2 points, Palladin.

[scaredkat]

yeah like sickler know he is sick taking a girl from her bed and raping her behind the house and then beating her in the face with a hammer. This guy as no feelings or sole.

[stlnative]

Did he commit any of these other crimes (bank robbery, theft of the neighbors house, theft of the Smart's house) after they were married?

Not that I know of while he was married to her but he was seeing her, when the November 2001 bank robbery took place. I think they knew each other for about 1 year before they got married. I think she said that on LKL. So it is likely she may have even known him when he worked for the Smart family.

[Palladin]

Heh! No one else scrutinizes my posts so carefully, or nitpicks them to death. The Devil in a Blue Dress has been unmasked.

[sandude]

I just hope they are investigating him as thoroughly as the forum sleuths are.

We have no reason to doubt LE's desire to solve this case no matter who is involved.