Elizabeth Smart thread, September 5, 2002-?

[Devil_Anse]

"reasons why"

Please do tell them.

Here's what I think of Angela's brother, pretty much all guesses. May be an ex-con or at least have a record. May have been the pig-roast guy. (Dang, I forgot to put him on my suspect recap list.) Probably has no sex offenses in Utah, b/c no one named Morse is listed on the register. (Or his name is not Morse?) Sure wish I knew where he lives.

Ricci had a brother, too, don't forget.

[varina davis]

So if you'd answered, I guess you could have just said Spencer Dixon.

Those are your words, not mine. Is Mr. Dixon on your mind?

[Devil_Anse]

Thanks for the description of the house. Also, that reminds me of something I really hope you can give me some info on. What sort of reputation does Tomahawk Drive have? Early articles said it was a sort of lover's lane. How could some transient (Bret Edmunds) be living in his car up there, so close to those expensive homes, seems people would have complained to the police, since Edmunds was a junkie and reportedly left needles lying on the ground.

Do you think someone up on Tomahawk Drive could have looked down and seen into the Smarts' windows?

[varina davis]

not logically challenged.

Good heavens, sandude! Do you and sherbert and JG get together and decide to use the same phrases over and over? Talk about "insult driven agenda!"

[Devil_Anse]

You didn't mean Dixon? Well, then which one of *my* 11 possibilities has merit, IYHO?

[varina davis]

Ricci had a brother, too, don't forget.

Oh sure. And probably uncles, cousins, grandparents...better add them to your list, too.

[sandude]

"reasons why"

We know that Richard was picked up at Moul's on the evening of June 8th by a man reported to be driving a blue van . On the following day the hikers down in the Manti area encountered the man digging the pig roasting pit under a bush. They returned later to warn him of the fire danger and he was gone. He was driving a blue SUV . If you look at Brigette's post # 546 on the August 31st to Sept 7th thread you will see where she has a picture of Angela next to the sketch of the pig roaster drawn by one of the hikers. You will see that the eyes, nose, cheeks, and jaw are the same or very similar. Brigette thought that it looked like Angela with a white ball cap on and she posted it as a joke.

So here is what I'm thinking. Elizabeth was buried someplace that was going to get searched for sure and so they went and dug her up on the 8th, placed her body in the blue van and returned the Jeep. The accomplice went the next day to bury the body in a more secure location. Angela has stated that she was introduced to Richard by her brother so we know that there is a connection. Where they met is anybody’s guess but we do know that Rick spent a lot of time in jail and so it's possible that they met there. I'm sure that LE is checking this guy out.

[scaredkat]

What sort of reputation does Tomahawk Drive have?

Up here is where you use to go to see the lights of the city, There werent many houses around there a few years back and it was a fun place to go no matter what age. (To the right of the house) There are a lot of things of interest up there, cemetary, a Catholic (church?? were nuns live)sorry dont know what its called. I just know that they still waar the full nun atire and you never see them. It pretty big. A huge cemetary and the unknown cemetary as well. A park and a place called gravity hill, now thats aplace to check out. Its a weird road you think your going up when your going down and when your going down your really going up, I dont think its every been explained one of those mistories this is makeout point. To the left of tomahawk its rolling hills/mountains. When usually I say hills it really is mountains to others because I quess hills are small back east.

[sandude]

Do you and sherbert and JG get together and decide to use the same phrases over and over?

No. It is one that is appropriate at times though and this was one of them.

[Devil_Anse]

Why don't you add Ricci's male relatives to your list? You can put them next to every member of the extensive Smart and Francom families. I notice you did not answer my question from the previous post. Which one of "my" 11 possibilities has merit, in your opinion?

Please don't pop off with an angry comment about how you are not required to answer any questions from me. I know that.

[scaredkat]

Do you think someone up on Tomahawk Drive could have looked down and seen into the Smarts' windows?

The way its set up there you could look right down into their back yard. In this area it really is steep and even though people think they went up I really dont think so because there would be no quick get away, unless there is a path that kids use I dont know about. Even with using a path I think they are more likely to be block in with nowhere to go.

[sandude]

Do you think someone up on Tomahawk Drive could have looked down and seen into the Smarts' windows?

It's possible but Elizabeth's window was on the other side of the house right above the front driveway.

[varina davis]

You can put them next to every member of the extensive Smart and Francom families.

Why do YOU continue this nonsense, when I've stated dozens of times the Smart and Francom families are not involved in causing any harm to Elizabeth.

My ONLY problem with them is that I believe they know -- or suspect -- more than they are telling, because.... Well, you figure that one out.

[Devil_Anse]

About Tomahawk Drive...Wow! Thank you!

Place where nuns live: a convent. But if you never see them, a cloister. (Omigosh I'm getting visions of nuns sneaking around in Smart house, sorry, used to work in an orphanage where nuns lived, huge ancient building.) And gravity hill...I read about that when I was a child, if it's the same place, it is some weird place where you can hang a rope from the ceiling of a shed, and it appears to hang sideways!

You're right, I imagine Lookout Mtn. would look like a hill compared to the Rockies.

Jolly Green mentioned a place called Federal Heights Drive. He said it has a part where the pavement ends and it continues on as a dirt road. Close enough to the Smart home that a vehicle could have been waiting there.

[Devil_Anse]

Okay, okay. Which one of the 11 possibilities I listed is the only one that has merit, in your opinion?

[Devil_Anse]

So, yes, then I conclude someone could be up on Tomahawk Dr. and be able to see down into the Smarts' back windows at night, but not Elizabeth's b/c hers looked out on the front. But they could see when the house lights along the back went out.

[sandude]

But they could see when the house lights along the back went out.

I've long thought that the abductor came from the back of the house and took Elizabeth in that direction towards the waiting Jeep.

[Devil_Anse]

About the blue van, Angela's brother, the jeep pickup and drop-off, etc.

BTW, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that ORIGINALLY the jeep was towed in to Neth's on about May 15. I also seem to remember that the police said they found the person who helped them get it towed in. Don't know if this was a tow-truck driver or just a friend, probably the former, but they WERE hard up for money. Tow-trucks are outrageously expensive.

Yes, they could have dug up a body on the 8th and then gone to return the jeep. Do you think the accomplice could have stayed calm all night with a body in his van, though? Why not just go on and re-bury the body after turning in the jeep? Night would be a better time for that anyway.

Also, if the jeep came back from someplace covered in mud, seems like the place with the mud (the original burial site in your scenario) would have been far more inaccessible than the place where the pig-roast man was seen June 9 by the hikers (second burial site in your scenario.) ?

I agree there looked like a resemblance to Angela in that hiker's sketch of the man. But the hiker was an amateur artist, so we never know.

[varina davis]

Also, if the jeep came back from someplace covered in mud, seems like the place with the mud

Wasn't Utah in a heck of a drought about that time? Where would all this "mud" have been?

Also, I believe the Wasatch Mountains are in Utah. The Rockies are in Colorado. I've driven through all of them. The Colorado Rockies are awesome. One of the best and most beautiful areas of Utah is the Canyon lands in the south. Breathtaking.

[scaredkat]

Federal Heights drive is to far away for that to happen if they did that shriners hosp would have got them on tape. Shriners is right directly north of fed heights. Then you climb even 6%+grade further up the road to kristinna circle. The church the meet for news is on fed heights drive. My husband states its about 1/2 mile to a mile. He said he would drive up there tomorrow and check it out, although we were just there sunday.