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To: Jolly Rodgers
Do you appreciate them all the time? Even when they break the law? Even when they shoot unarmed innocent people?

Of course I do not advocate police officers breaking the law.

But let me tell you something about your second point.

A few months ago in the Bellevue/Renton area of Puget Sound, a police officer named Richard Herzog was called to an intersection where a naked man was running through traffic, threatening people in their cars.

He could clearly see that the man was unarmed, so when the man rushed him screaming that he was going to kill Deputy Herzog, Herzog didn't shoot. He pepper sprayed him.

The man was able to take Herzog's gun away; the deputy tried to run, and the perp shot him in the back. Then, the perp walked up behind him and shot him several times, execution style, in the back of the head.

Deputy Herzog should have shot that unarmed man when he had the chance. He won't have an opportunity to correct that mistake, because he is dead.

In my opinion, the wrong person died that day.

I have a close friend who's a cop, and I believe that the vast majority of officers perform their jobs very well - and that they deserve the respect of us all. I don't care to see them maligned.

The Seattle area has had its share of troubles with protesters and downtown parties getting out of hand, and I will say that I would rather see the police err on the side of aggressiveness (WTO) than not (Mardi Gras, where Kris Kime was beaten to death - coming to the defense of a woman - as police were told not to move in). When they hang back too much, bad things happen.

1,176 posted on 08/28/2002 11:13:45 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
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To: Jolly Rodgers
Even when they shoot unarmed innocent people?

I should say that I missed the word "innocent" when I reacted to your post.

However, I don't believe I'm aware of (or it's possible I simply don't remember) any case where police have shot "unarmed innocent people" (innocent being the key word); if it happens, it is rare. Maybe I'm just missing something, but that's not something in the news every day or even every year. Perhaps you would care to enlighten me what you're referring to. I'd appreciate it.

1,177 posted on 08/28/2002 11:20:25 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
GREAT post!
1,178 posted on 08/28/2002 11:29:27 PM PDT by justshe
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet; Jolly Rodgers
Deputy Herzog should have shot that unarmed man when he had the chance. He won't have an opportunity to correct that mistake, because he is dead.

DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet, I'm sorry about Deputy Herzog, but it sounds as if you had your way maybe the St. Louis County police should have shot our 22 year-old mentally ill son, too.

On Christmas day last year I made the terrible mistake of calling 911 in order to get some help in getting our son to a physciatric facility. He has a neurochemical problem in his brain and on some days his medications don't seem to do very much good. He was in desperate need of immediate medical care, and I felt I needed some help to get him safely to the hospital. But I would have been better off calling Two Men and a Truck.

Our son was screaming and carrying on like a nut inside and outside the house. His brain had basically gone haywire. He picked up an aluminum door stop and was swinging it around on our front lawn. I went out to make sure he didn't hurt himself.

A female police officer eventually arrived and saw the aluminum thing in our son's hand, which was by his side, and started reaching for her belt to pull out something. She was about 25 feet away from him and I was about 5 feet away from him. I didn't know if she was pulling out a gun or pepper spray, but I didn't wait to find out. I knew that they had shot to death a young man in a similar circumstance a few months earlier, so I immediatiately got our son around the waist, and as gently as I could, tackled him on our front lawn. I did this solely and completely by myself before the police officer ever approached, so that he could not even be perceived to be a threat to her. I didn't want him to be able to run away because I was afraid they would shoot him to death, and I stayed on top of him and tried to protect him by covering his body with mine. During the entire incident he did not initiate any physical action that caused any physical injury to anyone.

To make a long story even longer, the police officer ran over into our yard, and without saying anything got down next to me, got our son in a headlock and maced him. Of course our son began writhing around from the affects of the pepper spray and then she started screaming commands at him (or me?) that even I was unable to decipher.

The moron cop pressed a panic button and soon there were dozens of police present. I realized later that anytime that many police officers are standing around they are either going to have a donut or arrest somebody.

The incident on the ground lasted about 3 minutes, but the nightmare that the police caused us following was far worse than anything our mentally disturbed son ever did. Instead of taking him to the hospital for treatment, they shopped around for a doctor who would find him fit for jail, where they eventually took him. They filed 2 misdemeanors charges, but after my wife filed a complaint about the police conduct, they changed it to 3 FELONIES; assulting ME, assualting the police officer, and resisting arrest. If I told you the outrageous lies the police told to justify themselves, you wouldn't believe me. If I told you the unbelievable things the police just made up out of thin air just to cover their *ss, you would think I was the one lying.

If I showed you the police report you would see that they knew that we from the outset were trying to get our son to the hospital for psychiatric treatment. They just didn't give a damm, though. They just wanted to cover their *ss over the use of the pepper spray. It was their way of saying, "Merry Christmas".

I was shocked and stunned by the illumination on that Christmas day that police will and do lie with complete impunity.

I will never trust them again, and I will never ever call 911 for any purpose whatsover. I'll deal with my emergencies myself.

That's just my two cents worth.

Cordially,

1,182 posted on 08/29/2002 9:14:26 AM PDT by Diamond
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
A few months ago in the Bellevue/Renton area of Puget Sound, a police officer named Richard Herzog was called to an intersection where a naked man was running through traffic, threatening people in their cars. He could clearly see that the man was unarmed, so when the man rushed him screaming that he was going to kill Deputy Herzog, Herzog didn't shoot. He pepper sprayed him. The man was able to take Herzog's gun away; the deputy tried to run, and the perp shot him in the back. Then, the perp walked up behind him and shot him several times, execution style, in the back of the head. Deputy Herzog should have shot that unarmed man when he had the chance. He won't have an opportunity to correct that mistake, because he is dead. In my opinion, the wrong person died that day.

Do you also think that police should get special treatment when they shoot unarmed people? You see, if I were to shoot a naked unarmed man, I would go to prison for life.

I have a close friend who's a cop, and I believe that the vast majority of officers perform their jobs very well - and that they deserve the respect of us all. I don't care to see them maligned. The Seattle area has had its share of troubles with protesters and downtown parties getting out of hand, and I will say that I would rather see the police err on the side of aggressiveness (WTO) than not (Mardi Gras, where Kris Kime was beaten to death - coming to the defense of a woman - as police were told not to move in). When they hang back too much, bad things happen.

You probably don't even see the incongruence here, do you? You are all over me for questioning the actions of the police, and telling me that I'm a cop hater because I think they reacted poorly in a situation. And yet, here you are doing the exact same thing.

The funny thing is, I agree with you -- in part. In both Seattle riots, the police refused to act when there were clear and isolated offenders to be arrested. They sat back and watched until the provocateurs were able to whip it into something bigger. Then the police reacted and many innocent people were harmed as collateral damage by both sides. It's not that the police need to be more aggressive at smashing crowds or shooting people. It's that they need to follow the law and be held accountable -- seriously accountable -- when they do wrong.

1,190 posted on 08/29/2002 7:24:20 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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