Elizabeth Smart case, August 14, 2002

[IamHD]

New thread for the 14th of August.

[landerwy]

"So it looks like 11 people? men."

I could be wrong but I think there were 8 men. 5 did provide fingerprint samples and the other 3 were out of town but would do so when they returned. No word if there were any women.

[Jolly Green]

Some of you are aware that I spent most of the last two weeks in the SLC area. During that period, I was able to meet socially with 4 SLCPD officers on several different occasions. FWIW, the following information may be useful or at least interesting:

- Three FBI agents "lived" in the Smart home for a period of time following the abduction. This isn't surprising, given many movie scripts where the Feds move in to trace calls and coach the parents in kidnapping cases.
- One officer essentially confirmed a published report saying that MK didn't see the perp's face.
- I asked about the published report about a mask, and none had ever heard anything about a mask.
- The SLCPD really pulled out all the stops to break the case and find ES - resulting in lots of overtime. The public also turned out in droves to search for ES. One patrolman said "you couldn't go anywhere without seeing the bright orange markings on the searchers."
- There seems to be very little doubt among the rank and file that Ricci is the guy, though he may have had an accomplice.
- There is a lot of interest in the area where Ricci hunted deer. I'll have more to say on that in a later post.
- I had previously aired suspicions about Fred Trujilo(sp), the security guard at Shriners Hospital, who saw and video taped cars in the parking lot at 1:00am on the morning of the abduction. You will recall that he had previously worked as a guard at the state prison and HE KNEW Ricci! To me that was an astronomical coincidence. I also speculated that the hospital security job was a step down in salary, benefits and prestige from being a prison guard. One of the officers agreed with me, saying that he might have been dismissed for cause.
- Dinse was apparently not pleased with the leaks and took steps to stop those leaks - apparently with good success.
- Resources are now being re-assigned to other investigations. This could mean the beginning of the end or it might mean a dead end.

[Neenah]

Source for spore_gasm's report above

[Neenah]

Those anxious neighbors may have arrived at the home up to 45 minutes before police were called, and their efforts may have compromised the evidence, authorities said.

As for me and my house.....I hope I don't hear anyone,now say that it is definate that the police were there immediately. We just don't know.But then the operative word is "may"

The father's "sense of it was the police were not taking it seriously," Hamblin said. "He thought the police had the sense it was a runaway case."

With this direct quote from the First President, it sounds like this is the reason why the PD was called late? or more probibly why they showed up late.

It will be interesting when and if a trial comes out of this, just what is said under oath.

[Neenah]

You are RIGHT !! I will be sitting in the corner now.

[L84AD8]

Spore-gasm & all,

Found an article that confirms that the neighbors , at least 10 of them, per Dinse in the article, were in the house and had been, when police arrived. Dinse, was frustrated. Another article reports that the police were disgusted.

---

Jun 8, 2002

Police Release Sketch of Man Who Had Contact With Missing Utah Girl as Pilots Volunteer for Search


By Rich Vosepka
Associated Press Writer


SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - Police on Saturday said they are looking for a man who had contact with 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart before she was reportedly kidnapped from her bedroom at gunpoint four days ago.

The man is wanted for questioning and has not been ruled out as a suspect while investigators continue to pursue thousands of other potential leads, police Capt. Scott Atkinson said.

He was described as white, in his late 30s to 40s, with a ruddy complexion and a lined face. He is missing a front tooth and was wearing a red beret, police said. He may have a gold earring.

Police distributed a sketch of the man based on descriptions from members of the Smart family. The man was at a social function the family attended, Atkinson said. He would not provide further details.

"Everyone is still a suspect," Atkinson said, though he added the family is not the focus of the investigation.

While about 100 detectives follow up on potential leads, 18 volunteer pilots in small aircraft and helicopters took to the air Saturday to scour nearby mountains and the Salt Lake Valley at the request of Elizabeth's family.

"We believe that Elizabeth is alive. We feel in our hearts that we know she is alive. That is a very strong thing," said Tom Smart, Elizabeth's uncle. "She's somewhere. Check your basements. Check your houses."

Thousands of volunteers have been searching the city and nearby foothills for any trace of Elizabeth or her abductor.

Elizabeth, a quiet girl, was taken from her home between 1 a.m. and 2 a.m. Wednesday. She was wearing short red satin pajamas. Police said the kidnapper allowed her to put on white canvas tennis shoes before she was taken away from her wealthy neighborhood.

Initially promising tips haven't panned out.

"I am frustrated," Police Chief Rick Dinse said Friday.

Police said an intruder forced open a window at the Smart's home and woke the teen-ager and her 9-year-old sister.

The frightened younger girl waited two hours before alerting her parents, complying with the gunman's threat to keep quiet or he would harm her sister, police said.

The younger girl has not been able to clearly describe the man, telling police only that the kidnapper carried a small black gun and was about 5-foot-8, white, with dark hair, and dressed in a tan denim-type jacket and white baseball cap.

Dinse said police have some evidence that confirms an intruder was in the house, though he wouldn't reveal it. He also refused to discuss the conversation the intruder had with the sisters before taking Elizabeth.

Dinse also expressed frustration with the crime scene. He said at least 10 of the Smarts' neighbors were invited into the house before police could arrive at 4 a.m. Wednesday.

The girl's father, Ed Smart, was released from a hospital in good condition Friday after collapsing from exhaustion. He had slept little in the hours since his daughter's disappearance but was doing well Saturday, said his brother, David Smart.

The community is offering a $250,000 reward for Elizabeth's safe return.

[landerwy]

"You are RIGHT !! I will be sitting in the corner now."

You may stand, just keep that nose to the wall!

[L84AD8]

The first few stories on the subject stated that MK waited about 2 hours, then woke parents who proceeded to wake family and contact neighbors to search the Smart house for Lizzie. The search went on for about an hour prior to Ed Smart calling the police.

When you use these facts that were presented early on, combined with the frustration of the Police (Dinse), and their thoughts that it may have been a runaway (initially) and later their thoughts that the family or extended family may have been involved, because of the sequence of events that occurred that night, it all makes sense.

Other things that happened later add to the above thoughts taking that direction.

[L84AD8]

Dinse also expressed frustration with the crime scene. He said at least 10 of the Smarts' neighbors were invited into the house before police could arrive at 4 a.m. Wednesday. This is the paragraph that I wanted to point out in the above article. Last time I used the bold function with an article, it mangled the text. I'll keep practicing.

[Jolly Green]

I'll be gentle!

how could she get that much detail and miss the face?

I have to assume that she saw him from behind or from the side - maybe going out a doorway with a light from the side or back.

So Ricci's the brains behind this? Was the motive discussed?

One told me that they seemed to think that it was a burglary gone bad rather than a kidnapping/ransom. I meant to mention that.

Have they shown an "interest" in him?

I didn't get a reading on that at all. Given his black hair, you would think that he had black hair on his hands - if any.

What was the sense you got from them? Thanks.

Surprise. My instinct is that Dinse is determined to solve this case. While SLC is a great place with good fishing, hunting, skiing, boating, etc., Dinse could just about name his own ticket for a future job if he brings this one in. This is about as high profile as they come.

[IamHD]

Hi! Are you aware of the HTML sandbox that FR offers?

[cookiedough]

Hopefully, the government will have more evidence than that of the crime scene -- and if points unequivocably to the defendant, that's it for him.

The defense will use anything to blow smoke at the jury, but juries are pretty smart and will see right through it.

[IamHD]

Go here, L84AD8. There are a few places that you can practice, too:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/653391/posts

[cookiedough]

Great work, JG!

Now, how do you connect the security guard to Liz' abduction, beyond the mysterious cars in the hospital's parking lot?

[cookiedough]

Evonitz, who killed 3 girls in Spotsylvania, PA, and abucted an raped a teenager in SC, who escaped from him ...

was never a suspect in the Silva/Lisk killings. By himself, he managed to abduct 2 sisters at the same time and kill them. He worked alone, according to police.

So it is possible that Ricci worked alone. It is possible that Ricci is not perp, and that, like Evonitz, the perp is someone who has not come under suspicion by police.

Someone was arrested and kept in jail -- circumstantial evidence, I suppose -- for either the Silva or Lisk killings. He was later cleared by DNA evidence, I believe.

Sometimes the police get the wrong guy.

[Vinomori]

I remember reading an account early on by a police officer that the crime scene had been contaminated by having neighbors there before the police arrived. That particular policeman sounded disgusted and made it sound as if the whole neighborhood was there.

That particular was disgusted because inviting 12 neighbors into your home before the police get there is a disgustingly stupid and arrogant thing to do, and at the very best naive beyond comprehension. How can someone be responsible for the safety of children who is this naive about crime?

[JudyB1938]

Did they pick up any strange fingerprints in her bedroom? I don't know, it struck me odd just now - trying to get all those guys' fingerprints, who supposedly should have all been downstairs, not upstairs in a child's bedroom that you have to pass the parents' bedroom to access.