Van Dam Jury Update, Monday August 12th: Westerfield's Fate Lies In Mudd Instructions?

Court TV ^ | August 12, 2002 | Court TV

[FresnoDA]

Jury's time Jurors will resume deliberations Monday in the capital case of David Westerfield, who is accused of killing 7-year-old Danielle van Dam

DAY TWO: FRIDAY, AUG. 9, 2002
12 noon ET	Jury enters jury room.
2:30 p.m. ET	Jury goes home for the weekend.

DAY ONE: THURSDAY, AUG. 8, 2002
1:10 p.m. ET	Jury begins deliberating. After two months of testimony, the capital murder trial of David Westerfield is in the hands of the jurors, who began their deliberations following more than two days of closing arguments.
2:50 p.m.	Jury sends a note to the judge.
3:00 p.m.	Jury at lunch.
4:30 p.m.	Judge calls the lawyers but not the public or the press into the courtroom.
5:15 p.m.	Judge says jurors sent note asking to deliberate five days a week instead of having Friday off and he approved their request.
7:00 p.m.	Jury goes home for the day. Will return Friday morning.

[Jaded]

Between the pressure from the media and the community's NEED to make someone pay... he's convenient.

[demsux]

bookmark

[small_l_libertarian]

I don't think it's at all liberal to be for the legalization of pot, or any drug. I think that the position they're (NORML) taking is that whether to use drugs or not is a personal choice, and people should suffer the consequences of their choices. It's not up to the nanny state to protect individuals from themselves, "for their own good."

If we as a nation decide that drugs are something that we don't want to have here, then I can understand intercepting drugs at the borders, punishing drug traffickers, even dealers to some extent. But to punish the end user is only to make criminals out of people who ordinarily would not be. If a person is not causing harm to anyone (like by stealing from him, or physically hurting him, etc.), then how can we justify calling him a criminal and locking him up?

Like the Crime show last night with Mudd, for example. The defendant was facing seven years in prison, but he was only charged with possession of meth. Not selling, not trafficking, just having it. Seven years of his life for the crime of possessing a baggie of a verboten substance. Does this guy have a wife? Kids? What are they supposed to do for seven years while he rots in jail?

So what happens when the nanny state decides that a certain book is too dangerous for people to possess and they start putting people on trial for simply possessing that book? Is that okay? Or what about alcohol? Guns?

I think it is a very conservative position to say that the state has absolutely no right to tell anyone what they can or cannot possess, so long as their possession of that item does not infringe on anyone else's rights to life, liberty or property.

[MizSterious]

Update on the informal verdict pool: What's your best guess for when the verdict will come in? (actual verdict prediction optional and not recorded)

The winner(s) get to be called "winners" and the right to say "I told you so;" we're still negotiating about "neener neener neeners."

So far, we have:

Small-l-libertarian - Monday (today)
It's Me - Tuesday (any time)
MizSterious - Wednesday
Shezza - Thursday before lunch
Mrs. Liberty - Thursday noonish
Domestice - Thursday afternoon
Rheo - Thursday 3 pm
Krodg - Friday morning
Nycgal - Friday 3 pm
Gigi - Tuesday (the 20th) morning
John Jamieson - Wednesday (21st)

If this thread gets real long, you might want to send your choices via freepmail or post them on the Refugee site--often I quite reading them when they're very, very long.

[crystalk]

That is 20 degrees Celsius, or 68 degrees Fahrenheit, and is a very typical daytime temperature in Oslo in midsummer.

[MizSterious]

One small nit to pick with your position on drugs--I don't know about marijuana, but meth is very dangerous. The users become entirely irrational, often violent, and are a menace to society. Other drugs might be the same--I hear most about meth. It seems to act a lot like the old "angel dust" in that it makes people dangerously insane while using it.

[the-gooroo]

Question--IIRC there was no DNA found on the comforters and pillow shams/cases that were drycleaned. Is that correct? --- Someone posted the other day that drycleaning doesn't degrade or eliminate DNA. (can't remember who,sorry) Don't you think there would be some evidence on those comforters of a rape of a child? The prosecution wants us to believe she was raped in that motorhome and the comforters were taken to the cleaners to get rid of DNA evidence. Any thoughts on this?

[small_l_libertarian]

I totally agree, but there was no evidence that either of these guys did anything to hurt anybody. Also no evidence that they were acting irrational (if you can call the Dumbass Brothers rational.) If they do, then lock their stupid butts up, pronto!

But think of it this way - you could be sitting in your own house and do a pound of meth. Be completely whacked out of your gourd so you don't know up from down. But if you don't hurt anyone else, should the cops be able to lock you up just for being an idiot?

And to be really nitpicky - there was also no evidence that either of the brothers used the meth. (Yes, that they used meth in general, but not the meth that they both ended up being charged with possessing.) So who did they harm? Who did they have the potential to harm?

I AM NOT ADVOCATING THE USE OR POSSESSION OF DRUGS. (Not meant for you, Miz. Just a standard disclaimer.)

[demsux]

I like Friday, noonish

[NatureGirl]

I don't think it's at all liberal to be for the legalization of pot, or any drug

I know, I know. After I hit "enter", I thought that Feldman is probably a libertarian. Calling him a lefty was not necessarily a knee-jerk reaction, just something that I should have thought about for another couple of minutes.

As for what constitutes a dangerous substance or "item", we just have to look at history to see what Prohibition accomplished - the funding of a huge criminal class (the Kennedys...NO wait, I meant the Mafia!).

I'm against the continued criminalization of "soft drugs" such as pot. I have problems with some of the more chemical drugs, such as crack and speed, not because of the crime aspect, but because the people who do those drugs tend to get violent as a side-effect.

And now to tie all this back into the thread. I don't really care that the VDs smoke pot, and I could care less about the swinging - just try and picture BVD when she's about 60, and her "lifestyle" catches up with her! But the fact that they did these things with their kids in the home - that starts to smack of negligence.

[L,TOWM]

I was in SD over the weekend visiting relatives. If the discussion in my family is anywhere near reflected in the jury, put me down for Wed., 8/28; hung jury...

A lot of controversy in SD as to whether LE and the DA have the right guy. I was surprised, but pleased with the amount of doubt swirling around this case. The media seems to have fallen short in their efforts to properly direct the "15 Minute Hate" at DW.

Also disgusted with some of my in laws being full blown VDA's.

[JudyB1938]

Sometimes things happen in our lives that seem to have no rhyme nor reason. It isn't that there is no reason; it's that we don't always recognize what the reason is. In Westerfield's case, I wonder if this horrible thing has happened to him in order to bring him to God? I can't help but think that - just look at how hard many of us are praying for him. I am sure there are others. And I'll just betcha HE is praying, too!

As far as the pool is concerned, can I be put down as "I don't know"? :0)

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

Just a friendly reminder:

Left: Damon Van Dam in 2002
Right: sketch drawn in 1999 portraying the man wanted for questioning in Michael Negrete's disappearance. Witnesses reported seeing a strange man on the dorm floor where Michael lived and were able to provide an accurate description of this man.

[Politicalmom]

He was making the point that anime was looked at every two weeks, which was how often Neal was staying with his father.

[I. Ben Hurt]

Using past experiences as my logic, it will be Wednesday afternoon. My logic being, I WON'T be available to track ANYTHING on Wednesday.

[Politicalmom]

So you would have no problem with, say, the VanDamns sitting around snarfing cocaine after their sick little fishing foray?

[the Deejay]

"As far as the pool is concerned, can I be put down as "I don't know"?"

Same here. I never try and figure out when a jury will return a verdict, nor what they've decided.

[the-gooroo]

That is spooky! You would think that Michael's father would have seen the striking resemblance of the sketch to his friend, Damon. I wonder if he was ever questioned by investigators.

[Blue Screen of Death]

Using past experiences as my logic, it will be Wednesday afternoon. My logic being, I WON'T be available to track ANYTHING on Wednesday.

Using your same logic, send me $20 bucks and I will tell you 8 numbers that WILL NOT be drawn on the next lottery. No problem, I do it all the time.

[JudyB1938]

That is just too spooky! I wonder if anybody down there in Florida is seeing what you've brought to our attention? I wonder if they will question the eye witnesses again for possible ID?