Smart Case, August 2, 2002

08/02/02 | Jolly Green

[cookiedough]

I don't think the perp was in the house for 2 hours -- I think he was there long enough to grab and go, need for speed slowed down by having to walk quietly.

I don't think MK huddled in bed, frozen with terror for 2 hours. I think it's more likely she was very scared and couldn't figure out what to do and waited until she could be absolutely sure the coast was clear.

It's also possible she dozed off during that time -- two hours feels much longer to a child -- it feels like forever.

Think back to any car rides you've taken with kids -- they are forever asking "when we will be there" because to them the promised 2 hour trip feels like it has taken 2 hours, even when only 30 minutes has passed.

Kids don't think the way adults do, and you have to take personality differences and awareness of the "real world" into account too.

My daughter chased an older boy off the playground when she was 2, after he poured sand on her hair. She was furious because he didn't have her permission to do that and she scared him (he was all of 5). Same kind of thing happened to one of my sons when he was that age, and he just stood there and cried.

Some kids are more naturally aggressive, curious, etc., than others.

I had read plenty of Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys when I was that age, so even though I was not the agressive sort, I doubt I would have waited 2 hours ... because I fancied myself able to solve crimes, if only I had the chance.

[TXLady]

Hi Jen,
Good to have you back, I have been missing your wise, well thought out and well presented posts.

[Bella]

What time are you leaving this evening for SLC?? Maybe you can give them your well-researched theories and the case will be solved..Everyone needs to know what happened and where Lizzie is. Have a SAFE trip! Good Luck! :-)

[FR_addict]

Why release a sketch of someone they already have?

They did not think it was Ricci in the beginning. Their target was Edmunds. So why not try to get a sketch in the beginning to narrow the suspects?

If there were a killer on the loose in Salt Lake, grabbing 14 year olds, the SLCPD would be holding press conferences themselves and putting the sketch everywhere.

They didn't know if there was a "killer on the loose" initially, but no sketch was forthcoming from the SLCPD at that time.

[stlnative]

Ping

[JudyB1938]

Good morning.

[cherry]

I think people use "you know" much as they do the frequent use of "well"...

.its a pattern of speech...a habit...that some people develop.

.it gives the impression to the listener that the person speaking is non-aggressive, thinking, caring , etc.

...it's a prefix to something you want to say but don't want to push it on someone....non-aggressive speech pattern..

. Listen to some ministers ...or some commentators on the TV...many will express their "love" and "caring" and how wonderful thoughtful persons they are by using these non-aggressive speech patterns... okay...that is my opinion only...I am not a linquist..I am a listener though..

[cherry]

Lois Smart answered by saying-quote-”She saw the person. She did see him. And we can’t comment any further on that, but she did. And she recognized the voice.” And a family spokesperson confirmed to us that Lois Smart has said her daughter saw and heard the abductor well enough to identify him.

this is the perplexing part.

why not come out and say that Ricci is the perp?

He is in jail for life no matter what.. there is no need to protect him or the family from him.

This is why I think that perhaps it is not Ricci....if they are so secretive about who it is that they can not comment...then it must be someone who would be a very sensational perp...someone that the cops can not finger until all their ducks are in a row...until all the legal "i's " are dotted and the "t's" crossed...someone they can not risk a lawsuit with or someone that could disrupt a lot of things in the family or neighborhood or the SLC community..

Tell me I am wrong but tell me why I am wrong...and tell me why they need to keep MK's id of Ricci a secret...because that does not make sense anymore...the only way it would make sense is if they thought Ricci had Lizzie hidden away somewhere...and Id'ing him would be her death for sure...but that is a long shot imo..

[landerwy]

Why release a sketch of someone they already have?
Why hire a profiler after they already have him then?

Could it be that her identifying Ricci is weak, meaning that she is "pretty sure" it was him and the profiler helped solidify the ID? Also I think they want to find Elizabeth before they charge him possibly in the hopes she is alive.

[Sherlock]

Bella, maybe he can take the SLCPD & FBI a copy of his and your timelines.

How do you think Thumper's sleeping nights there in the theme park after ratting on his next door neighbor and former buddy Angela and her hubby?

[Sherlock]

And she recognized the voice.

I wonder if she recognized the voice when she heard him on Jun 5, later when LE told her who the possible suspects were, or from the voice lineup they had her do with voice recordings of Ricci, Young, and Remington. If she picked him out of the voice lineup it could be someone she doesn't know. I find it hard to believe she recognized the voice on Jun 5 or LE would have been all over whoever it was like stink on a skunk trying to save Elizabeth. And in that case it couldn't have been Ricci, because they didn't even bother calling on him until Jun 6 and they said he was one of the first people they interviewed. Too bad they didn't ask him were the Jeep was Ed Smart had sold him and follow up on it's whereabouts.

[cherry]

thx for posting the Boylan interview...

I am just so impressed with her ....notice how she uses words like a surgeon would use a scapel...very precise...she did not give out specific information yet she projects a lot of confidence in the investigation and in the work that her and MK have done... ..

I wonder what she meant though when she said MK was second -guessed?....it sounds like people did not believe her at first...

what startling info. did she MK say that was not believed or second-guessed....

I for one would believe anything about Richard Ricci...

[jo6pac]

Utah let Young go on a 'home vacation' back in the mid-80's after spending less than a year in jail. He was rearrested when he went on a burglary spree while home on vacation. He was out of jail 2-3 years after that.

Are you sure about this? What is your source?

[Vinomori]

why not come out and say that Ricci is the perp?

With Elizabeth still missing, and no body found, they have no reason to do that yet. There is no advantage to them to say it. It doesn't help their case at all.

[Vinomori]

Yes, "you know," "well," and even the trailing off at the end of a sentence are common speech patterns, often with the intention, or at least the effect, of "softening," as you say

The "you know" verbal tic is shared by Ed Smart, Hillary Clinton and a number of pro athletes. It is based in fear and inspired by panic. It is a manifestation of being afraid that you are going to say the wrong thing, so you continuously ingratiate yourself with the listener with the "you know"s while you're buying time internally to think through what you are going to say. Hillary Clinton does it more than any public person I have ever known. I believe, in her case, it is because there isn't any belief system there inside her to draw upon, and everything is contrived to fit the current situation. So it's ongoing panic. In Ed Smart's case, I think he has been so thoroughly "coached" on what not to reveal, that he needs to buy time that way. LE is probably one body and one wayward accomplice away from a case. At least, that's exactly how they are behaving.

[Sherlock]

Actually now I think it was Ricci that was released from jail for a home vacation and went on a burglary spree while on 'vacation' and was rearrested and it would have been back in the mid 70s. I'm trying to find it. This was a long time ago I read it but Brigette would remember our discussing it, I made a big deal on the thread about the Utah legal system.

[Bella]

Some comments from other boards...

Subject: Re: ED NEEDS TO BE GRILLED
Date: 8/2/2002 2:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Bzmom23
Message-id: <20020802144146.11820.00001198@mb-ma.aol.com>

Now I am not saying for one minute that I am a master interagator - I would probably break a lot of "rules" - I would not harm a hair on Tommy's or Eddy's heads though but give me 5 hours each alone with these guys and you will get some answers. Ask the questions they do not want to answer if they are really 100% innocent they will not be terribly "damaged" by hard questioning, but I agree drill and grill Eddy and Tommy until every officer and detective in the place is 100% certain that these two know nothing and then everybody will lay off blaming them. I know if I am innocent of something I could be grilled for days and I would not be damaged by it. If someone is guilty the right questions can rat them out and I mean HARD questions stated in matter of fact ways. I mean c'mon what other big things are being done on this case that a few good interogators couldn't take a couple of days and drill and grill these two sweet innocent men I mean what's the big deal those of you who think thery are totally innocent? Are you afraid their story just might crumble under HARD questioning and then their perfect image would be damaged? AK
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Subject: Re: why is that child lying
Date: 8/2/2002 12:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Relaford
Message-id: <20020802120833.20498.00001577@mb-cg.aol.com>

> Release what you know, maybe the public can help.

I was thinking about the Smart case in comparison to the case of the two girls kidnapped in California yesterday, which fortunately, had a good outcome in that they were found alive. The determining factor seems to be that all available information was released to the public immediately. I wonder how many people could have seen something regarding Elizabeth's case had they been on the lookout for her, or a man fitting the desription of the kidnapper, if more information been released to the public right away?

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Subject: Some Questions I'd Like to See Answered
Date: 8/2/2002 10:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Townschlampe
Message-id: <20020802105720.09923.00001165@mb-cj.aol.com>

1) Was there a life insurance policy on Elizabeth Smart. If so, how big was it?

2) When MK got up the nerve to go tell her parents about the abduction she saw the kidnapper was still in the house. From the floor plans I've seen of the house, MK most likely saw the kidnapper in the vicinity of Ed and Lois' bedroon. Wjat was the kidnapper doing?? Talking to Ed perhaps???

3) Hypothetically speaking, if MK recognized the kidnapper as Richard Ricci then it stands to reason that police would have had a tail on him sometime during the day on June 5th. Ricci returned the vehicle to Moul on May 8th so police should already know something about the whereabouts of the vehicle in the critical time after the abduction. Why haven't we heard something from the police on this???

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Subject: Re: Some Questions I'd Like to See Answered
Date: 8/2/2002 11:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Townschlampe
Message-id: <20020802111300.08203.00000973@mb-ce.aol.com>

To PunkySeeds: I saw a floorplan of the Smart's house on this message board several weeks ago. I wish I could tell you how to access it, but from what I recall, the master bedroom is right by the staircase and the children's bedrooms all lead further down the hall. So if MK saw the kidnapper was still in the house when she went to report the kidnapping, she would have had to see the kidnapper near the master bedroom.

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Subject: Re: MOTHER SAYS, "FBI WON'T TELL US A THING."
Date: 8/2/2002 11:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: CHA4244
Message-id: <20020802113120.11740.00001361@mb-ma.aol.com>

I have wondered the same thing. Maybe Ed hasnt seen a sketch, Maybe the police had MK work with boylan and the smarts had nothing to do with it. Maybe police havent released sketch because they are keeping watch on the perp. I dont think this is going to turn out well for elizabeth. Too much time has passed and as we see with the california cases, everyone has to be on top of it. time is valuable.

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Subject: Re: July 31st The Abrams Report
Date: 8/1/2002 11:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Smokeban11
Message-id: <20020801230559.14255.00000528@mb-fn.aol.com>

I feel, just like the Ramsey's, the parents of Elizabeth Smart are hiding something and there appears to be several dysfunctional members of the Smart family. Has that beautiful girl been sold in the sex slave market? That thougt keeps bothing me.
South Carolina

------------ Subject: Medical Records/Diary????
Date: 8/2/2002 9:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: R6472
Message-id: <20020802093729.07402.00000851@mb-ci.aol.com>

For all those out there that think Elizabeth was sexually abused, I'd be curious if there were any leaks from her family's physician that she had any physical indications, e.g. frequent urinary track infections--I believe this was revealed in the Ramsey case, but the child was officially "dead," so legally this probably couldn't be brought to light at this stage.

Also, what about a diary? If Elizabeth kept one that could reveal a lot and I would hope has been turned over to the police!

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Subject: Ricci Must be Brilliant!!!
Date: 8/2/2002 2:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Nemaned
Message-id: <20020802022108.00630.00000600@mb-df.aol.com>

is ricci really really smart? is ricci a totally calm, soft spoken, well controlled man? does ricci have a history of being able to pull off extremely complicted crimes without leaving any hard evidence that points directly to him? is ricci capable of planning a crime that from start(picking up the jeep) to finnish(droping the jeep off) took days to accomplish? is ricci savy enough to completely stymie the FBI and the SLCPD? my gut feeling says no to all of the above. the evening after elizabeth was kidnapped, my daughter and i arrived in salt lake for a softball tournement. we had seen a story on the news or heard about it on the radio early in the day. as we were checking in to our hotel, on a TV behind the front desk, ed smart was making a pleading statement (i believe pre-recorded from that morning) to the press. after just a couple of sentences, my daughter and i both turned to the other and our thought was identical......Susan Smith. sorry, but that's what it sounded like. i still don't know who did or didn't do this, but it sure is a weird case. ---------

Subject: sylvia browne on LKL tonight(aug.2)
Date: 8/2/2002 1:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: MAXNOGGIE
Message-id: <20020802015427.08419.00001258@mb-mq.aol.com>

just saw it on cnn break. had to get out of bed to post this. did not check to see if you guys already knew. but didn't want anyone to miss it. she will probably have something to say about elizabeth. pass it on please. thanks. goodnight.