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LoTR-The Two Towers: Book discussion (The Green Dragon Inn) III

Posted on 07/26/2002 11:29:06 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog

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To: Wordsmith
(thus the handle!)

I had a very close "friend" who used to be the freeper "Ward Smythe." He was killed in the religion wars. In his honor, I no longer go there...

161 posted on 07/30/2002 7:40:38 PM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: HairOfTheDog
Looking forward to it! I realize I havent participated much in teh conversation so far, but I *am* lurking and paying attention...not just birdsnesting in the Shire, so to speak!

Speaking of writing, I have been spending most of my time working on a serious fan fic, so my nose has been buried in the books verifying facts and calculating events.

I can't wait for TTT!! Those new pics drive me up the wall...I know Helms Deep is a major part of TTT, but I really hope the rumor has been debunked that it will take up 45 minutes...there's far too many other things going on to do that! Not unless they want to shove a lot of Merry and Pippin over into ROTK, which would really be sad...but I digress!

Ta for now...
best regards,
Alkhin

162 posted on 07/30/2002 8:57:55 PM PDT by Alkhin
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To: Alkhin
Lurk if you must, but post once in a while so we don't forget you!
163 posted on 07/30/2002 9:10:50 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog

This picture for us epitomizes Middle Earth, the ethereal beauty and magic and bittersweet sadness as the Elves depart and consciously choose to go back to God and the blessed realms.

That after all these decades inner images so treasured have become viewable in this world is a miracle.

164 posted on 07/31/2002 7:40:20 AM PDT by Cascadians
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To: Cascadians
It really is beautiful!

(Not on chapter really - only a small hint, I love it) And, since it was not available to us to post when we were leaving the Shire... I guess it is OK to bring it in now!

165 posted on 07/31/2002 7:47:18 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
Yes, Wordsmith, you had better start carrying your books with you. Sneak them in to work if you have to!

Thanks, TTT has now got a place of honor in my briefcase. Going to be a little hard to carry the whole trilogy with me, so I'll consult the other volumes in the evening! Won't be posting much more today, but should be around tomorrow.

166 posted on 07/31/2002 8:58:29 AM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: Corin Stormhands
I had a very close "friend" who used to be the freeper "Ward Smythe." He was killed in the religion wars. In his honor, I no longer go there...

My first few months of posting on FR were on the religion threads. Made several very nice Freep-friends, and a few enemies as well. Like you I've sworn off of the religion forum for now, and would venture to say that my relationships with God and brother are better for it! Christ Bless.

167 posted on 07/31/2002 9:01:44 AM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: Wordsmith
Like you I've sworn off of the religion forum for now, and would venture to say that my relationships with God and brother are better for it!

I think I saw you over there some. I was pinged back this morning because they were accusing me of posting under different names (I am not). I went back and blasted them and told them to leave me alone. You're right. My life is much better without them.

168 posted on 07/31/2002 9:03:28 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: Cascadians
Gorgeous photo. Like a nobler and more serious version [vision] of A Midsummer Night's Dream.
169 posted on 07/31/2002 12:57:01 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: Cascadians
Wow, what a beauty! Is this from RotK?

Saw several posts from others that were cold-cocked by some of the religious folks. Me too. But you see, I see a BIG difference between 'religious' and 'spiritual'; too bad.

I love my fellowship with God, but not with the religious folk. Think Tolkien experienced the 'spiritual' side don't ya'll??

170 posted on 07/31/2002 3:45:03 PM PDT by LinnieBeth
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To: LinnieBeth
Don't know which movie that scene is from -- might be FOTR when the hobbits would see the Elves on their way to the West.

The hobbits were most fortunate in the Shire to have the Elves grace their land in this most moving passage. It all came down to Frodo & Company valiantly making The Way safe once again. The Elves saw the opening come clear between Times of Evil and went to a surpassingly lovely place prepared for them where cruelty and disease no longer tormented anything, and where they could walk among those Powers close to God, and delight in the higher noble expressions of divinity.

Back to TTT, where the action gets thick and swift and all beings must battle the Enemy if they have any hope of seeing freedom for themselves or Middle Earth in the future.
171 posted on 08/01/2002 7:21:40 AM PDT by Cascadians
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To: Cascadians; LinnieBeth; Overtaxed; HairOfTheDog; 2Jedismom
...might be FOTR when the hobbits would see the Elves on their way to the West.

I believe that's correct and it has been added to the extended version.

172 posted on 08/01/2002 7:58:02 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: Corin Stormhands; All
Yes, that is correct, it is a formerly cut scene from the early part of the story, where elves could be seen passing through the Shire on their way west, never to return.

I will not be able to post much today either... busy today, and tonight will be reading up on my chapter for tomorrow!
173 posted on 08/01/2002 8:21:08 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
I'm assuming we're on to chapter 3, "The Uruk-Hai", starting tomorrow? Oooh goody... :-)
174 posted on 08/01/2002 8:42:10 AM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: Wordsmith; Corin Stormhands; Overtaxed; 2Jedismom; All
As I look at it briefly... Do you think Chapter 3: The Uruk Hai (15 pages in my version) should stand on its own or should we also include Chapter 4: Treebeard for next week? (16 pages)

Chapter 3 ends with Merry and Pippin's escape into the woods during the raid of the Rohirrim... Chapter 4 also continues with Merry and Pippin's perspective, but the story has taken a turn. We switch back to Aragorn and company at chapter 5.

Hroom hum... whaddya think? - I don't want to push us faster than the group can go with busy lives, but I want to make sure we have enough interesting material to cover for the week too...

Give me your thoughts!
175 posted on 08/01/2002 9:05:18 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
Give me your thoughts!

I'm kinda non-committal here. In one sense I would agree that we could do both chapters, but then part of me thinks that Treebeard deserves a week of his own...

I'm also torn because I'll be gone from August 17-24 and I'd like to get back to Aragorn and company before I depart.

How's that for a squishy answer?

176 posted on 08/01/2002 9:13:42 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: Corin Stormhands
That was a very squishy answer! - But I feel squishy myself, or I would not have asked...

Say - Here's a thing I have found (I am finding myself distracted from work in my book for a bit - rats!)

Aragorn and his companions searched far and wide about the field of battle, but the light faded, and evening soon drew down, dim and misty. By nightfall they had discovered no trace of Merry and Pippin.

'We can do no more,' said Gimli sadly. 'We have been set many riddles since we came to Tol Brandir, but this is the hardest to unravel. I would guess that the burned bones of the hobbits are now mingled with the Orcs'. It will be hard news for Frodo, if he lives to hear it; and hard too for the old hobbit who waits in Rivendell. Elrond was against their coming.'

'But Gandalf was not,' said Legolas.

'But Gandalf chose to come himself, and he was the first to be lost ' answered Gimli. 'His foresight failed him.'

'The counsel of Gandalf was not founded on foreknowledge of safety, for himself or for others,' said Aragorn. 'There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark...

The quote speaks to me, on the idea that wisdom is not always to take the safest route, and that (I see Istari as messengers from God) the wise may foresee trouble, and yet give counsel to walk into it regardless, for some higher purpose we may not yet understand, but they do. I would agree with Gimli, on believing Merry and Pippin to be dead; fallen victim to events so much bigger than themselves... They never should have been there, and the news would indeed come hard to Frodo and to Bilbo.

But Aragorn is starting to talk like a king.

177 posted on 08/01/2002 9:45:20 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
They never should have been there, and the news would indeed come hard to Frodo and to Bilbo.

And yet their being there is so important. They're important to the Fellowship. To think, the elves and the wizards and the men and the dwarfs can't solve the problem. So it comes to the meek little hobbits who really don't know what they're getting into. And what speaks loudest of all is that Samwise, Merry and Pippin (albeit quite naively) follow the quest out of loyalty to their master and friend.

Think of the scene in the movie where the Orcs are coming and Merry and Pippin realize that Frodo is leaving. They distract the Orcs, surely "knowing" that it means certain death. I think somewhere in there, all of the Fellowship comes to believe that none of them will return alive.

And to me, the strongest point in the movie comes at the end with "Don't you lose him Samwise Gamgee...and I don't intend to..."

178 posted on 08/01/2002 9:56:18 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: Corin Stormhands
[sniff] I sure do get worried about poor Frodo and Sam... we go so long in this section without word.

I know they (Merry and Pippin) had to be there... I guess that was my point. (remember, we think they are dead) Gimli does not see all that, (none of them do, yet) he is the common man... he mourns the small losses and grief they will bring.
179 posted on 08/01/2002 10:07:49 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Tuor; Wordsmith; All
Hmmmm... before we leave this chapter, we should take special note of this event for later:

Suddenly Gimli looked up, and there just on the edge of the fire-light stood an old bent man, leaning on a staff, and wrapped in a great cloak; his wide-brimmed hat was pulled down over his eyes. Gimli sprang up, too amazed for the moment to cry out, though at once the thought flashed into his mind that Saruman had caught them. Both Aragorn and Legolas, roused by his sudden movement, sat up and stared. The old man did not speak or make, sign.

'Well, father, what can we do for you?' said Aragorn, leaping to his feet. 'Come and be warm, if you are cold!' He strode forward, but the old man was gone. There was no trace of him to be found near at hand, and they did not dare to wander far. The moon had set and the night was very dark.

Suddenly Legolas gave a cry. 'The horses! The horses!'

The horses were gone. They had dragged their pickets and disappeared. For me time the three companions stood still and silent, troubled by this new stroke of ill fortune. They were under the eaves of Fangorn, and endless leagues lay between them and the Men of Rohan, their only friends in this wide and dangerous land. As they stood, it seemed to them that they heard, far off in the night. the sound of horses whinnying and neighing. Then all was quiet again, except for the cold rustle of the wind.

'Well, they are gone,' said Aragorn at last. 'We cannot find them or catch them; so that if they do not return of their own will, we must do without. We started on our feet, and we have those still.'

'Feet!' said Gimli. 'But we cannot eat them as well as walk on them ' He threw some fuel on the fire and slumped down beside it.

'Only a few hours ago you were unwilling to sit on a horse of Rohan,' laughed Legolas. 'You will make a rider yet.'

'It seems unlikely that I shall have the chance,' said Gimli.

'If you wish to know what I think,' he began again after a while 'I think it was Saruman. Who else? Remember the words of Éomer: he walks about like an old man hooded and cloaked. Those were the words. He has gone off with our horses, or scared them away, and here we are. There is more trouble coming to us, mark my words!'

'I mark them,' said Aragorn. 'But I marked also that this old man had a hat not a hood. Still I do not doubt that you guess right, and that we are in peril here, by night or day. Yet in the meantime there is nothing that we can do but rest, while we may. I will watch for a while now, Gimli. I have more need of thought than of sleep.'

The night passed slowly. Legolas followed Aragorn, and Gimli followed Legolas, and their watches wore away. But nothing happened. The old man did not appear again, and the horses did not return.

And there our current chapter (2) ends... Leaving us wondering who that was... Who is Tolkien telling us it was? Who was it really? We don't know yet... and we really can't talk about it fully until chapter 5 without getting ahead of ourselves... but as we get there we should pay attention for more clues...

180 posted on 08/01/2002 10:19:11 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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