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Okay, I will retract my comment about whining. Some men have a legitimate gripe about the way they are treated in divorce court.

Do not for a moment assume that I underestimate the gravity of the situation. I know full well what an important influence good fathers have on their children; I have had a lot of time to think about that since the death of my own father a few years ago.

What I think you are missing, though, is that the type of conversation that is occurring on this thread will do nothing to heal the wounds that men and women have inflicted upon each other in the last few decades. Conservatives need to find ways to support the lifelong commitment of one man to one woman-which just happens to be the best known environment to raise happy, healthy children. Would you like to explain to me how improving men's rights in divorce proceedings advances this end?

What I think you are missing, though, is that the type of conversation that is occurring on this thread will do nothing to heal the wounds that men and women have inflicted upon each other in the last few decades.

Absolutely wrong. Only through discussions like this do most people find out that their story is not unique, not even as rare as they thought, and allow them to put the blame where it belongs. Which is on stupid laws with perverse incentives passed by idiot legislators appeasing the horrors of feminazism at the behest moronic advocate-buffoons like you.

Note: that's not a personal attack.

Would you like to explain to me how improving men's rights in divorce proceedings advances this end?

Easy. It will reduce the divorce rate, probably dramatically. The wholesale bias of the family court system in favor of women almost pays women to get divorced. As others have pointed out here, a woman who is "thinking about" getting divorced because she's bored, or because he puts the toilet paper roll on backwards, or some other stupid thing does not find her friends recoiling in horror -- as would have happened thirty years ago. Instead, she's immediately surrounded by Helpful Friends who tell her that she can have the house all to herself, the Benz and the Land Rover. She'll probably get the savings account, and of course custody of the children is a slam dunk. Hey, everybody's doing it... you can join our divorced wives club... we hit Chippendale's every Thursday. C'mon, Linda, it'll be fun.

The lawyer, whom her friends put her in touch with, tells her not to worry that John will be angry. "We'll get a restraining order. He'll be out of the house so fast his head will spin." It will all be hers in no time flat. No fuss, no muss, no bother. Best of all, there's no fee for any of this... the judge will stick ol' John with the bill for his own hosing.

Given that we didn't used to have a 50% divorce rate, and given that the human condition has not changed all that much in thirty years, we have to suspect that a lot of angst that today causes divorces was once considered part of the game... something you slogged through because that's what life was... slogging through. We have, however, made it so easy, and so lucrative, for women to actually pursue divorce, that situations that never would have gotten that far in our parents' day turn into knock-down drag-outs with lawyers and psychologists and restraining orders flying in every direction. How do we stop this?

Suppose when the next woman mentions to her friend that she's "thinking about" a divorce, her friend tells her, "Well, you know, it's not like it used to be. You could lose the kids. And the house. You might not, but it's a possibility. They don't just automatically give it to the woman anymore."

When this one calls a lawyer, she hears, "We'll need $1,000 up front to prepare the paperwork. If you're seeking custody, we'll need another $8,000, just to start."

Wanna bet the day that happens, the divorce rate drops like a rock?

Would you like to explain to me how improving men's rights in divorce proceedings advances this end?you're right. from that perspective it won't solve what you (and most of the male posters here, believe it or not) see as the culprit: shattering of the foundations for the nuclear family. where we disagree is how we came to this place, and how to move beyond it. demonization of males, so much so that legally accomodated discrimination is countenanced, is undesirable in and of itself. having to be in divorce court in the first place is probably worse, but the solution is much harder....