Posted on 03/25/2002 4:35:20 AM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
I rejoice your passion in faith runs so high, I suggest though it instead be placed in Jesus. Your self righteousness merely proves to everyone here you are a wilfull soul, and that (my brother in Christ) is no Christian attitude despite your amirable intent to open the eyes of others. I worry someone new in faith may find your demeanor repugnant, and that would not be effective in winning souls for Christ. With prayer and Christs grace, you will mature in this aspect .
That minority of Arminians and Roman Catholics who are Saved and are Christians, are Christians despite their Arminianism and Catholicism. These belief systems do not aid the progress of the Gospel; they subvert it. These belief systems do not assist a man in attaining salvation; they hinder him.
Are you making the assertion that the Orthodox Presbyterian Church is THE body catholic? - I respectfully disagree. RNmomof7 - what are your thoughts, do you feel the same? and is this tenor typical of Presbyterians or just the 1611 Orthodoxy crowd?
Mom tried to say that it wasn't directed at the Arminians when it was a clear response to OPs post regarding Arminians. The last thing I saw on the thread was when Mom told me I made OP a prophet - I guess because I complained about her calling us "Christ haters." Who could've predicted we'd object to that?
Ergo, the vast majority of Arminians are not saved, and are not Christians. #2730 posted on 3/22/02 1:07 PM Eastern by OrthodoxPresbyterian
Rnmomof7 is this accurate - do you consider me a "Christ Hater" or have you been misinterpreted by WS? -
Nope. Uprooting doctrinal error is not self-righteousness, no matter how much ecumenists who oppose the idea of absolute truth would like it to be.
The modern church is addicted to that doctrinal poison, the "soveraigne drugge Arminianisme" (and remember, this is how the arminians described their theological construct). Judgment falls first upon the house of the Lord; the church must break her addiction to lies.
Telling a crack addict he should overcome his addiction is neither judgmental nor self-righteous. You can say it's judgmental and self-righteous, of course; but reproving a man of his addiction to poisons remains the morally right thing for a Christian to do.
Are you making the assertion that the Orthodox Presbyterian Church is THE body catholic? - I respectfully disagree. RNmomof7 - what are your thoughts, do you feel the same? and is this tenor typical of Presbyterians or just the 1611 Orthodoxy crowd?
I am simply making the assertion that "Calvinism is the Gospel, and nothing else" (Charles Spurgeon). I don't mind a bit that such statement was made by a Calvinist Baptist; I am no "pure partisan" of the OPC (although obviously, I am OPC partly because I adjudge them to be the most doctrinally correct denomination around, but that is a very different thing from saying the OPC is the only game in town).
My interest is more broadly in the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace, whether preached by Orthodox Presbyterian, Calvinist Baptist, or Reformed Episcopalian, etc... this is the Gospel, and nothing else, whether it be preached in a Presbyterian church, or another; the "master narcotic" of Arminianism must be reproved and cast out of the churches.
RnMomof7 has repeatedly stated that she made those comments specifically in regard to those Arminians who deliberately attempt to silence religious discussion on FR, having threads pulled and so forth, and who are thereby working to prevent the peresentation of the Gospel.
RN has made her intent known via freepmail - your assertion they are trying to prevent the gospel is sadly off the mark. What it appears is that they are trying to stifle un-charitable, un-Christlike demeanors that waft strongly of bigotry, further advancing the wrong notion of Presby/wasp elitism - Was that your goal ? - because that was the outcome, and that is unfortunate as there is a unawakened lurker somewhere in flyover country reading these posts, shaking thier head saying - "man, thats nothing I want to be a part of." - youll win more souls with Gods truth, than prideful boasts. Blessings to you
merely reaffirming the notion that wisdom is by the grace of God and knowledge in the hand of a young man is often wielded like a sword. Wisdom and knowledge are distinctly different as you have shown us. You can certainly swing it around in an impressive manner, yet lack the maturity and grace (wisdom) to effectively utilize the tool of evangelism.
Child, I will pray for your prideful talk
God's truth is that Arminianism was a deliberate fabrication of counter-reformationist Jesuits, artificially constructed from the beginning for the specific purpose of overthrowing the Biblical Doctrine of Grace in the Protestant Church. Not the kind of "gospel" anyone should want to see souls "won" to, when even its own adherents have described it as a drug which was planted into the bloodstream of the church.
Any true Christian must not be a party to this doctrinal pollution of the Church. They must reprove the unfruitful Arminian works of darkness, not aid them.
Evangelism requires as a prerequisite, among other things, that you are actually preaching the Real Gospel. How can the church hope for consistent efficacy in evangelism, when her "gospel" has been infested with Arminianism?
The problem here is that you are simply assuming that Arminianism is true. But the facts of history establish beyond question that Arminianism was always a fabricated construct, at the root, from the beginning of its appearance upon the world stage. AND IF THESE FACTS ARE TRUE (and they are irrefutable), then the Church must reprove the evil works of Arminianism. She cannot blithely tolerate this "soveraigne drugge" which every day poisons her doctrinal life-blood.
Cordially,
Delighted to be of assistance, I just hope you don't end up sleepin' on the couch on my account!!
this is by no means "evangelism" leading me to ask who is being served. Comments?
As I already stated -- to have confidence in the efficacy of your evangelism, you have to start by preaching the Real Gospel.
False Gospel makes for False Converts. Pew-warming Pod People -- damned through the Church
Until we expunge the spiritual poison of "that soveraigne drugge arminianisme" from the doctrinal bloodstream of the Church, congregants who have been fed a False Gospel will continue to be "damned through the church".
Huh... do you really believe that the Church Fathers were Anti-Semites? Honestly? And yet, you pretend yourself to be a Christian??
In fact, observations on God's punishment of the Jewish Nation for their rejection of the Messiah have been offered by many a commentator:
But we have no intention of reading into such exegeses, any kind of imaginary "anti-semitism" on Wesley's part. We need not fabricate into Wesley's writings attributions of anti-semitism, and thereby hope to indict his theology; no, rather, it is enough that the foundational crux of Wesley's theology itself was nothing more than a deliberate fabrication, constructed by the Jesuits for the express purpose of perverting and subverting the Gospel of Grace amongst the Reformed Church -- that "soveraigne drugge arminianism", a theological poison which was conceived from the beginning as a Counterfeit, and a Lie.
THAT is what we truly hold against Wesley's theology.
False Gospel makes for False Converts. Until we expunge the spiritual poison of "that soveraigne drugge arminianisme" from the doctrinal bloodstream of the Church, congregants who have been fed a False Gospel will continue to be "damned through the church".
Tsk, tsk. What simpering bulverism.
Please indicate exactly where I advocate the worship of Messr. Calvin.
If (and when) you can't, then it will be evident that you are a Liar, a Bearer of False Witness, and a Willful and Deliberate Breaker of God's Law.
Sins for which you must repent.
your refutation is weak and by this point redundant. Can I have your first name so I can pray for you?
But if you pray to the "god" of Arminianism, a "god" which is nowhere found in the Bible and was constructed by Jesuits for the express purpose of perverting and subverting the Gospel, then you will be committing Idolatry, Rev.
For to pray to a False God, is Idolatry.
And the Arminian Construct's fabricated "god" is a False God. How could it be otherwise, when their entire theological system was conceived and birthed as a deliberate fraud which was always intended to pervert the Gospel, as indeed it has?
I will not provide the occasion of further Idolatry on your part. Instead, I will warn you that you must repent all false, Arminian-fabricated false notions of God, and worship the true and living God -- who is correctly apprehended by the theology of the Reformers, as unperverted by the "master narcotic" of Arminianism (the poison of the church).
Nothing of the sort.
It is an earnest effort to bring one who professes to be a "christian" to face the historical facts that the core fundamentals of his Arminian belief system are and have always been a satanic Counterfeit, deliberately fabricated by spiritual Wolves.
But it is a difficult effort, for Arminians are deeply mired in spiritual blindness; they cherish their Jesuit-constructed System far more than the Authority of history, or that of Scripture, or that of the Christ!! Hence their unwillingness even to face the irrefutable testimony of historical facts which are utterly damning to Arminian beliefs; for how shall they come into the light, who are so accustomed to loving darkness?
"Winning the debate" is immaterial. Winning you to the cause of Light and Truth is essential.
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