Posted on 03/15/2002 6:54:33 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
Repost – Highlights from chapters 1-5 copied from the original forum to the new one. To reference the full version, click here: Original Green Dragon Inn Within the first five chapters... disregard the reply numbers... they wont work.
Thank you ecurbh, for copying and editing our old thread so that the highlights could be moved here! Highlights of the first five chapters from the old thread are pasted into the first 5 replies here. For those of you who are just joining you… as of this post we are beginning Chapter 6.
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Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn
Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien
Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.
This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.
Every week, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.
If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.
Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.
One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.
So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.
Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to appreciate and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.
Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.
*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.
I hope that TTT trounces everything that came before it at the box office (especially the Star Wars and Harry Potter movies), same with ROTK.
-Kevin
Boromir was not stupid, not by any means. He wasn't especially wise, but he wasn't stupid, either. He loved combat, believed in the power of the strong...and in the idea that the strong had an obligation to help the weak. He viewed the Ring through the eyes of a warrior: the ring was an instrument of war to him. He was proud because of his lineage, his upbringing, and his temperment.
He was not doomed to fall beneath the power of the Ring, but his pride kept him from really listening about what was said, even by Gandalf. He felt, I believe, that the Wise were afraid to use the Ring as it ought to be used. He didn't think that the Ring *itself* was evil or corrupting, only the motives of those who used it, and he wanted to use it for the good of Gondor.
The Ring used his pride and naivity. It led him along a series of rationalizations that ended with him trying to take the Ring from Frodo. It was only afterwards, after Frodo had run off and he had time to think of what he had almost done, that he realized the truth, both about himself and the Ring. Then, when many men would've denied the truth or been crushed by it, he fought valiantly and died for two Hobbits, neither of which held the Ring.
Tuor
I'm sure that's right. Personal ambition for power is so rare in the Shire that they don't even need a government.
Still, the ring does have the capability to awaken desire for power in hobbits as is shown by Smeagol/Gollum and Frodo and Sam later.
All of us have been around the Boromir tree many times... which is why, when I poked a bit of fun at him up there, the regulars didn't jump all over me. A couple of months ago, it might have sparked a whole new debate on the subject ;~D
I do know the hot buttons to hit, if you would like to participate in a fresh round, or we could wait a few weeks until the story comes to the natural spot to hash it out one last time!
Since the ring pulls people and twists them based on their own personal power and ambition, its power very much depends on the stature of the bearer. Bilbo saw its purpose to be only to hide from people (like the Sackville Bagginses) he didn't want to see. Even when in the end it corrupted him, it was through simple lust for the thing. In the end he coveted the Ring itself, not the power over people he could have gained with it. Very similar to Gollum.
Frodo, we can't talk about yet...
Great article, LinnieBeth, thanks!
I really appreciate you comments about Boromir. I read FotR very quickly- trying to finish before the movie left town - that my impression of Boromir was pretty shallow. I loved reading all the Poster's comments, but this morning your comments in this Post were particularly appreciated, and I have decided that I must just re-read the book.
Thanks
"Regiments of black crows are flying over all the land between the Mountains and the Greyflood,: he said, "and they have passed over Hollin. They are not natives here; they are crebain out of Fangorn and Dunland. I do not know what they are about: possibly there is some trouble away south from which they are fleeing; but I think they are spying out the land. I have also glimpsed many hawks flying high up in the sky. I think we ought to move again this evening. Hollin is no longer wholesome for us: it is being watched."
"You speak gravely," said Elrond, "but I am in doubt. The Shire, I forebode, is not free now from peril; and these two I had thought to send back there as messengers, to do what they could, according to the fashion of their country, to warn the people of their danger. In any case, I judge that the younger of these two, Peregrin Took, should remain. My heart is against his going."
On one level, he seems to be talking only about the danger that The Shire is in. However, that last part, "My heart is against his going" sure sounds like some foreshadowing, something more than just the danger The Shire is in.
I think so too, even though Pipin is always getting in trouble (the palantir later, etc.).
It was, IMO:
1) Because of his (and Merry's) innocence.
2) Because Elrond's heart warned him that there would be trouble in the Shire. He wanted Merry and Pippen to be messengers to warn and deal with whatever troubles were brewing in the Shire.
However, I would agree that it was mostly the matter of Merry and Pippen's innocence and I think perhaps Elrond didn't think they would contribute enough to the Fellowship to warrant their inclusion: they didn't bring any unique skills/abilities to the Nine Walkers...at least none that were immediately apparent to Elrond.
Of course, we all know that Gandalf successfully argued for their inclusion and the reasons he gave for doing so. It is another example of Gandalf's great wisdom and foresight.
Tuor
Snooty Elf! :)
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