Posted on 03/15/2002 6:54:33 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
Repost – Highlights from chapters 1-5 copied from the original forum to the new one. To reference the full version, click here: Original Green Dragon Inn Within the first five chapters... disregard the reply numbers... they wont work.
Thank you ecurbh, for copying and editing our old thread so that the highlights could be moved here! Highlights of the first five chapters from the old thread are pasted into the first 5 replies here. For those of you who are just joining you… as of this post we are beginning Chapter 6.
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Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn
Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien
Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.
This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.
Every week, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.
If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.
Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.
One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.
So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.
Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to appreciate and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.
Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.
*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.
That's the one I was thinking of.
they "felt" them before they saw them
In many ways, the early parts of (the book) LOTR are my favorites, The subtle and more mysterious menace projected by the black riders fills me with greater dread than the hordes of Orcs that appear later. Their presence right in the shire evokes memories of my boyhood in the 50's in rural Virginia right around Halloween. Walking outside with my mother, feeling a hint of the coming winter chill in the air, watching the leaves tumble and fall and hearing stories about the strange souls that would be out later.
I also thought that the Bucklebury ferry scene in the book was more spooky than the movie version. Seeing an indistinct shadowy figure on the far shore was pretty menacing and mysterious. I can see where it might not have worked as well on film, though. I did think it was very dramatic there in the movie when the one rider was suddenly joined by two more. Their unworldly screeches were chilling.
An excellent piece of suspense-building!
Maybe a horse expert can correct me, but I remember reading somewere that infantry units could march farther in a day the calvery could ride without killing thier horeses. The speed advantage of the horse is for short sprints. Keeping them together is probably the best bet. Remember Strider (with his broken sword) & the Hobbits chase off the 5 BRs on Weathertop. They would have run the risk of meeting the Nazgul alone with a winded horse. Besides the rest of them wouldn't have been able to scare the black horses into the river if they were left to far behind.
Since the movie left alot of that out the 'chase scene' to the ford worked much better.
I think on the whole I am OK with the changes that Jackson made, though I didn't think Arwen's increased role was necessary, I didn't mind it either. In fact, her scenes with Frodo were very good.
Jackson's (and Alan Lee's) version of Rivendell, however, was not exactly the way I've always imagined it. I didn't picture it to be such an "outdoor garden" sort of place. Somehow I imagined a large house with cozy fires and hearths and stuff. I didn't picture it to be in such a narrow chasm either. Not that I didn't like it, just that it was different than my own vision.
The falling leaves in the Rivendell scenes were a thoughtful touch. I know, in the story, the season was fall, but the falling leaves also very eloquently and poignantly foreshadow the end of the elves time in Middle Earth.
I will try to be that expert! I am an active trail rider who owns a retired endurance racing horse.
When my horse was racing and in peak condition, he did 100 mile races in a day... these are finely conditioned horses, and there are rest periods. The races are done mostly at a medium-to extended trot, not a gallop. Based on condition and strategy, riders give the horses walking breaks periodically over the race course, and there are mandatory rest periods where the horse is not allowed to go on until his temp and heart rate have returned to normal. The better conditioned the horse is, the quicker he recovers and the faster they can get on their way.
Walking for pleasure I do 25 mile rides. A moderately conditioned horse can walk this distance bearing a rider and stay sound. When I did it last summer, we were out 5 hours or so, including stopping for lunch and several breaks along the way, mostly to rest the riders knees and behinds, the horses don't complain as much as the riders do on long rides.
These are guesses, because I couldn't quickly find a speed chart in a google search, but if memory serves:
Walking, a horse moves at about 8 mph
Trotting, a horse moves at about 12-20 mph, this is the most efficient way to go long distance.
Galloping/cantering, I would guess that they could go about 30-45, but not for REALLY long distances, but a reasonably conditioned horse could certainly canter at a good pace (not a full out gallop) for 10 miles...
Asfoloth, of course is an elf horses, and would not tire.
I can't imagine that marching troops could go further in a day than the cavalry horse troops at a reasonable pace.
That is all I know (actually more than I know, if I have erred on my guesses)... but I hope it helps
I think keeping everybody together was the real reason. Also Frodo wouldn't leave his friends in danger and only mounted when Glorfindel convinced him that they were less in danger if they weren't with him.
I believe the BR's would have followed Frodo and the ring and left the rest of them alone. But still...I was forgetting that they would be needed to deal with the Riders left on the wrong side of the Ford. [what do you need with a Ford when you've got a horse? Hehehehe]
I'd have thought horses could outpace men any day, after all, they have four feet and longer legs and are big. And you always hear about how weak men are physically compared to other animals.
What did you think about the movie version of Rivendell?
Yeah...I'm an early riser...my cat sees to that :)
The problem that I have with the Arwen/Frodo scenes is that it's Arwen defying the Black Riders instead of Frodo. And when you take out the Barrow Downs scene, Frodo comes out looking wussier than he really is.
I see the Last Homely House the same way you do...A nice cozy place with lots of fireplaces. The movie Rivendell looks like it was shot completely in the sun room or something. I guess there aren't any weather events in Rivendell (where's the small, windowless, interior room that you're supposed to get into when a tornado approaches?)
I liked the falling leaves. It fits in with that "perpetual fall" description that they give of the Elf places. Check out this picture of the "Rivendell valley" drawn by JRR Tolkien. Doesn't it look like the movie shot of the valley when the Fellowship is departing?
It does, it also looks like a similar view painted by Alan Lee, so he must have based his on this one by Tolkien.
You're right, the movie Frodo missed those chances to show the steel within his character. It came out a little at the council though, when he volunteered to bear the ring "though I do not know the way." Very brave.
Dimly Frodo saw the river below him rise, and down along its course there came a plumed calvalry of waves. White flames seemed to Frodo to flicker on their crests and he half fancied that he saw amid the water white riders upon white horses with frothing manes.I remember (and liked) the white horses but I don't remember seeing white riders. Does anyone remember seeing white riders in that scene?
I don't remember seeing the white riders on the horses, and I looked to see...but I think I'll need to watch the movie again to see for sure! LOL Maybe today! My absolute favorite part of the scene on the river is this:
'By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair' said Frodo with a last effort, lifting up his sword, 'you shall have neither the Ring nor me!'Then the leader, who was now half across the Ford, stood up menacing in his stirrups, and raised his hand. Frodo was stricken dumb. He felt his tongue cleave to roof of his mouth, and his heart labouring. His sword broke and fell out of his shaking hand.
Doesn't this sound dreadful! Makes you proud of Frodo, but really worried about him!
See what you miss when you play hooky? :)
When I reread that whole river scene, I realize that the company needed to stay together so that all the Black Riders would be swept away in the flood.
With his last failing senses Frodo heard cries, and it seemed to him that he saw, beyond the Riders that hesitated on the shore, a shining figure of white light; and behind it ran small shadowy forms waving flames, that flared red in the grey mist that was falling over the world.It wouldn't do to have spare Black Riders hanging around Rivendell!The black horses were filled with madness, and leaping forward in terror they bore their riders into the rushing flood. Their piercing cries were drowned in the roaring of the river as it carried them away.
I love this part because of what it talks about later...but I can't say anything without giving away some of the story that's coming up! Arggh!! ;-)
To all you people that are reading along as the thread goes...this is mentioned later and is sorta interesting. At least to me...
But I still think it's a good idea for 2Jedismom to see it again and make sure.
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