Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Ashley Wilkes is a study of a person who's world has fallen down around him. Ashley is a great character.
Rhett Butler is my favorite. He is an intricate, complex human being who I actually like. I read the book for Rhett not for Scarlett.
Plus you get the details of Atlanta Society during this time. The social mores, etc.
But don't judge the book by the movie.
OT (apparently a yankee in disguise), called GWTW a soap opera...
Didn't your granddaddy pass down stories of that era to you?
I demand satisfaction, suh!
My granddaddy was right....anything north of Winston Salem was Yankee.
I wuz sweet talkin'?... oh man, I must be slippin'...
Tell me the story about whacking people with hoses again
Hey, talk watcha know... give'em hell at the town meeting!
Actually, two of my great-grandfathers fought for the Confederacy. And legend has it that the "Rebel Yell" originated in my home county.
My family didn't really talk about it much. It's not like we were land owners or anything. My mom's dad was in WWI, but died before she graduated high school (he was hit with nerve gas). I don't know that my dad's dad was ever in the military.
My history teachers in school really romanticized it a lot. And I'm fascinated by that whole era. In fact both eras fascinated me - the actual Civil War time frame and the actual making of the movie time frame.
The stories behind the making of GWTW are also fascinating. I only saw it once but several years ago there was a tv mini-series on "The Search for Scarlet O'Hara" - more soap opera than the actual movie, but every Hollywood starlet wanted to play that role. IIRC they started filming before they cast Vivien Leigh.
Ma'am if it hadn't been for the Virginians, there wouldn't be a Winston-Salem...
BWAAAHAHAHAHA!! Good one! ^5
hey, what's not to like about g'nad?... g'nad got rogueish good looks, strong white teeth, sparklin' disposition... what's not to love?...
Yeah, but Scarlett created a lot of negative energy in me. Translation: I spent a lot of time wanting to whack her with a sock full of sand... And I didn't get her fascination with Ashley. What kinda name is that for a guy anyway? And she's supposed to always wish she coulda had him instead of Rhett? (Or so I remember...my memory is a bit vague.)
Reading your posts has convinced me to go get the book and read it. I need something to do to kill the time until TTT comes out. :)
David O Selznick began to film GWTW before Vivien Leigh was cast because he was under obligation to begin working Clark Gable on a certain date.
The first scene they shot was the burning of Atlanta. Selznick used the burning as a way to clear his backlots so that he could rebuild Atlanta there.
Vivien Leigh came to the shooting. Myron Selznick brought her. She was dating Laurence Olivier at the time.
If Vivien Leigh had not come along the part with have gone to Paulette Goddard.
So did Vivien Leigh who portrayed her. She thought Scarlett was horribly written as compared to the book.
During the time of the Civil War, Ashley was a man's name. It was a strong family name.
Leslie Howard (who portrayed Ashley) didn't like the character either. He thought Ashley was portrayed as weak. In the movie, Ashley is weak. In the book, he's not like that at all. You can see why Scarlett is drawn to him.
Of course, Rhett Butler is the best character.
If the Virginians thought more about winning the war than they did about protecting Virginia, we'd still have a republic. :)
Once a fella ignores them or (worse) chooses another, the gloves come off and it's a desperate pursuit until they finally have them. Then, they dump them.
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