The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[htur_75]

I thought that was how you pronounced it. How do you?

[Overtaxed]

I only got to hear the first two lines before it turned off, but that is funny...

I had better luck playing it when I downloaded the file first. I listened to as much as I could stand!

[2Jedismom]

I'd like to get this map for Matthew...if anyone sees it in a chain store (like FYE or something), let me know.

[ecurbh]

According to the Appendix E pronuciation guide:

C - has always the value of k even before e and i: celeb 'silver' should be pronounced as keleb.

So Celeborn is pronounced "Keleborn" and Cirith is "Kirith".

[2Jedismom]

I have always pronounced Celebrian (Arwen's mother's name) as Kele-bree-ann.

[HairOfTheDog]

Since I never read any of the pronunciation guide stuff, I have always pronounced all the C words wrong. I was surprised to find out about the hard C pronunciation in the original hobbit hole thread, and I try to be good now, but it just feels wrong. Celeborn just feels (sounds) better as Seleborn than Keleborn to me still.

[2Jedismom]

Here's a point that I though you might agree with, or have some comment about...

Many times while watching the movie, I've noted the stronger personality of E. Wood being blunted, while the others are having the primary part of the scene. I can barely take my eyes off Elijah Wood when he's doing a scene, because he's just so unusual to look at and his acting is just so strong!

BUT, when there is a scene with someone else, he seems to underact to give the person doing the scene the full glory. An example that I just saw was Sam, Merry and Pippin at the council of Elrond. Frodo has just had this big scene, now it's Billy Boyd's turn. EW's acting is very subtle in that scene. A glance, a small smile. It takes nothing away from Billy Boyd's line. EW has the greater roll, but he takes nothing away from his co-stars by overdoing it in the background.

This just makes me all the more impressed with Elijah Wood's acting.

[2Jedismom]

You just need to be re-programed.

;-)

[ecurbh]

You just need to be re-programed.

Format C:\

[carton253]

Which is what he is supposed to be doing. Nothing worse than an actor who will pull focus. Audiences can only look one place at one time...

[2Jedismom]

Nothing worse than an actor who will pull focus.

Exactly! And EW could have pulled it easily with even just a slight change of expression, because of his acting and his appearance. The other actor that I can think of that could do this is Julia Roberts. Unfortunately, I can't see her withdrawing from the focus ever. She must be the focus.

I guess I am just delighted to see a professional who is confident enough to sit back and let others shine now and then. It's what makes LOTR so special to me, the books, I mean. Each character shines at one time or another. PJ made sure this came through in the FOTR and I'm looking forward to seeing what the characters do in the next films!

[HairOfTheDog]

I know, but re-programming is so much harder at 35 than it was at 25. Hopefully we have caught htur while she is still young!

[Overtaxed]

EW's acting is very subtle in that scene. A glance, a small smile

So...where are we going?

[carton253]

That's probably the director, also. No doubt EW is a great actor and will do the right thing... Jackson has picked a great cast who do support each other. When an actor is constantly pulling focus or seems to be out of control, it's because the director isn't strong enough to stop it.

The only other thing that happens when an actor constantly pulls focus is that the story is lost because the audience can only focus on one thing at one time. So, if EW distracts during an important part of the story, and the audience suddenly has their attention drawn to EW, then the story could be lost and muddied.

That's one thing my young actors don't understand. They are either of two extremes... something happens and no one reacts (that's bad) or they are too busy and the audience misses plot points because little miss ham is too busy (and usually too funny) and demands the audience watch her.

You are right about Julia Roberts. Watching her pull focus during Denzel Washington's win at the academy was horrible. That's right, Julia. It's all about you.

[2Jedismom]

That's IT! LOL Look at EW...so understated, but you can tell what he's thinking. And Merry...now Carton, what is this Merry is doing? He's helping to focus the attention on what Pippin is saying. All his reactions are just helping to accentuate what Pip is saying. It probably has some professional name that you might know. But I love the whole scene. It only varies slightly from the book and when I read the part in the book, I can see them doing it just like this! LOL

That's what I meant,' said Pippin. `We hobbits ought to stick together, and we will. I shall go, unless they chain me up. There must be someone with intelligence in the party.' 'Then you certainly will not be chosen, Peregrin Took!' said Gandalf, looking in through the window, which was near the ground.

Then:

`You speak gravely,' said Elrond, `but I am in doubt. The Shire, I forebode, is not free now from peril; and these two I had thought to send back there as messengers, to do what they could, according to the fashion of their country, to warn the people of their danger. In any case, I judge that the younger of these two, Peregrin Took, should remain. My heart is against his going.' `Then, Master Elrond, you will have to lock me in prison, or send me home tied in a sack,' said Pippin. `For otherwise I shall follow the Company.'

[carton253]

Well... the professional name as I know it as is good acting. There must be some reaction to what Pippin said because it is funny... Merry has the strongest reaction because he is closest to Pippin and 2nd in the camera shot. EW must react because he is still in the shot... even if EW reacted as strongly as DM, it would have been okay because Pippin's statement demands the rest of the characters react. What I would love to see are the other shots that show the reactions of the other actors, and even those who are not in the scene.

Billy Boyd's comic timing is very good.

[2Jedismom]

Billy Boyd's comic timing is very good.

Oh yes, he just makes the scenes he's in! Have you ever heard him talk on his webpage? You can barely understand him, his accent is so strong!

Maybe you could mention this converstation to your students...that plain old people out there notice even when an actor is "underacting" for the good of a scene?

[2Jedismom]

er, conversation.

[carton253]

Oh, no... I have the other problem... usually no reaction at all. It cracks me up. In the play they are getting ready to do, there is a fight. So the two actors go at it, the rest just stand around looking at each other.

"What would do in real life if a fight broke out in front of you?" I ask.

"Get out of the way. Break it up. Watch!" They respond.

"Then do that!"

Nope, next time we do it, they just stand around looking at each other.

[Overtaxed]

Hair! Did one of the eagle eggs just hatch in the last few minutes? I thought I say the far egg in two pieces with a brown fluff in between. One of the Gwahirs is back on the nest now.