Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
-----------------------------------------
Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
I'll let OT and ksen make the obvious elf jokes about this...
Who puts krispie treats in the oven?
I think it's just best not to get the Keebler/Krispie elves fighting each other again!
Someone who wants to burn them. :)
Note the double-entendre.
A fine example of another honest Precious snaig.
I've learned my lesson!
AAAAArrrrggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!! I can't take the pressure!!!!!
AAAAArrrrggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!! I can't take the pressure!!!!!
AAAAArrrrggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!! I can't take the pressure!!!!!
Sounds like something doused in brandy and torched. Elves Flambeau?
This statement strikes me as odd. Since you see no reason to fear the public schools you do not want to read something that may show you that you SHOULD have a reason to fear the public schools?
I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to inform yourself as to what is actually going on inside the public schools.
I guess what I don't like to see is an attitude in homeschoolers that must tear down other methods of education in order to bolster their own method. If it is good, then call it good. It doesn't have to classify everything else as evil does it?
But what if the alternative really IS evil?
But I don't want to have to embrace insults against where I came from in order to respect homeschooling, and I feel like homeschoolers too often don't promote homeschooling without tearing down everyone else that attends traditional schools.
The public schools we have today are not the traditional schools of this country. They are a relatively new invention.
How can I answer categorical statements about kids that can't write? - I can write.
Hair, we are about the same age. Today’s public schools are not the same schools we went to.
So there has to be a good option for those kids. If the schools are broken, we should fix them because fixing them is the right thing to do. If they are wrong, why can't we make them right?
What would you propose to do to fix the public schools? (a serious question)
I don't agree with abandoning the schools to the liberals who are the only ones left there.
I don’t agree with sending our kids into the lion’s den for 6+ hours a day, five days a week.
So I wish the best parents who care about the curriculum weren't already gone, and there was a place on the conservative side for those who want good schools. The good people have left the constructive part of the discussion.
You need to ask, why did they leave?
They are already on the other side of the road, where all they do is jeer and point, which doesn't help solve anything.
Neither do generalizations.
ksen, I've said many times that we're now considering homeschooling when we haven't really in the past. I have two basic problems with the whole private school/homeschool mentality.
1) Private schools: I'm at least a few years older than you and I grew up in the south. My first grade year was the year Virginia schools were desegregated. I still remember that was the conversation on the way to school my first day. As such, I've always been skeptical of private schools, particularly "Christian" private schools because a lot of them were formed, not for educational reasons, but for segregation reasons.
2) Homeschooling: I agree that it's great for some families. I think you (ksen), 2J, SuziQ and the others (Jen's family) are all quite well prepared to homeschool your children. But a lot of people aren't. I may insult some folks here, but I think if all you have is a high school diploma that you don't have any business homeschooling your children. No, you don't need an education degree, but you need more than high school.
And I have a real problem with folks who want to homeschool their kids to keep them away from all the evil in the world. Hear me out. It's a good thing to limit what your kids are exposed to. But at some point, they've got to know what the real world is like.
It's like the parents that my wife is dealing with now as she's teaching kids who have been mostly homeschooled. The woman that didn't want her daughter reading Poe and Hawthorne sent in a collection of "Christian Literature Short Stories" as an alternate. My wife looked at it and said "fine" since there was some good literature in the book (including, to our amusement, works by Poe and Hawthorne). But she's offered her class extra credit for a book review over the Christmas holidays. She's had one student ask if she can read the Left Behind series.
I'm reading that series because I think the story line (and their interpretation) is intriguing. But the writing is crap. Last year during Christmas rehearsals I was reading one and so many people from our choir came up to me and said "aren't those books just wonderful? They're the best thing I've ever read." [insert puke smilie here]
I'm on my soapbox here because I adamantly refuse to fall for the line that just because something is "Christian" that it is "quality."
And THAT's why I'll never agree that homeschooling is for everyone.
/rant
Well, most practically ksen... because I don't have kids, so I am not facing a decision about where to school them right now. But also because I believe schools are much more local than that, and horror stories in a book will not be that helpful in determining what the situation is right here at my own schools... So that is why I am not going to promise to read the book. I just probably won't...
So if you agree that these "bad" schools are a recent phenomenon, then there must not be anything inherently evil if they were once OK...
What do I suggest? - I guess push for conservatives on school boards and go to school board meetings if your kids are in school. If no conservatives are on the ballot, then run. I would guess your school boards at "bad" schools meet alone with little intervention from the public. No one goes to meetings. Impact things. Go to visit, volunteer in classrooms, meet with administrators. That is what my friends do when they have concerns, and they are have impact here. They aren't throwing their children to the lions, they are participating in their school. The principle in my friend's elementary school was our fifth grade teacher and he still knows my name today when he sees me at the store. It isn't a walled place with faceless demons that parents can't get into here, so I can't get my head around this fear of great evil. And this is a liberal area... though pretty well-off. I know it is worse in poor areas, but I can't imagine my town is a lot different than other suburban communities where most of us are living.
Well, most practically ksen... because I don't have kids,
I don't have kids either, but my tax money is used to support these monstrosities. /$.02
You know...I'm just going to say a few things partly regarding this and partly my own thoughts and then back out. I KNOW this is one of the few subjects that can really get me riled up, and I'd rather not go there. ;-)
First of all, though I know there ARE good schools out there, I would say the public schools in this area are more about indoctrination than they are about education. They teach more about "social issues" than they do about literature, mathematics, writing, etc. Their whole goal is to turn out good little (liberal) citizens. Many of the public universities are more of the same. (And not just the public ones, for that matter.)
I have very strong opinions on higher education, which I know are not shared by the vast majority of Americans, so I usually don't bring them up. But I'll be darned if I'm going to pay tens of thousands of dollars to an institution that supports programs and causes that go against everything I believe in just so I can get a piece of parchment that says I've taken classes in something I can learn on my own! Yes, it does give me proof...but I'm not willing to pay that much for proof. I don't need it in my present career field, and I would be unlikely to find a really good job in the fields I would LIKE to study - music, mostly. Nor would I really want to do that as a career. If I want to learn about one particular thing, I'll take a class or read up on it, but I have no desire to go to university to do so.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.