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The New Hobbit Hole

Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole

Concerning Hobbits

The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

-----------------------------------------

Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Chit/Chat; Poetry; TV/Movies; The Hobbit Hole
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To: JenB
Got the zeroes! I need to get back in the corner...that's where the wings and pints are!
2,201 posted on 04/11/2002 6:50:49 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: All
This is what I found on our state message board this morning:

Carolina: NC Budget Woes Ping!! Flood money debate stirs local distress http://www.reflector.com/auto/feed/news/2002/04/11 /1018501620.03468.1270.1894.html

Weasly Easley reminds me of Sauron's eye--roving everywhere for $$$$$$$. Money--my preciou$$$$$$$

2,202 posted on 04/11/2002 7:00:07 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: HairOfTheDog

Ok, here is a description of the picture above (the hobbit that I believe is Pippin, in the lower left hand corner of the book):

It shows a right profile of a slim hobbit climbing using hands and feet up a root. He has on a black shirt and blue knee-length pants. His dark hair is long, just past his shoulders. My copy of the picture shows that he is barefoot and that his eyebrows are furrowed down a bit, giving him an intense expression (even in my book which is in fair condition, this is hard to see.) You can't see much below this one's knees, so you'll just have to take my word for it till we get a better copy (if anyone is interested at all.)

2,203 posted on 04/11/2002 8:18:19 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: 2Jedismom
Ok - Well, funny thing is I used to have those covers, but can't find that set of books. I am afraid I will have to take your word for it on the fine details! Is this Tolkien artwork? - I seem to remember that he did the cover artwork for this addition.
2,204 posted on 04/11/2002 8:22:56 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog

Ok, now this is the one that I think is Merry (because he looks in worse shape than the other). It's a left profile picture of a hobbit lying on his abdomen, arms flung up above his head, with his face burrowed into where the crook of his left arm should be (Tolkien didn't put the crook in!) He also has dark hair that comes to his shoulders. He's wearing a bluish colored long sleeve shirt and black knee-length pants. He is barefoot. He has two items beside him which I believe must be some belongings, but I don't know what.

2,205 posted on 04/11/2002 8:26:51 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: HairOfTheDog
Yes! Tolkien did them, which is what interests me so much about them! I feel I get a glimpse of what Tolkien really thought in his own head what the hobbits must have looked like. This particular watercolor is called "Fangorn".

I really feel like PJ did a good job of casting E. Wood and the Sean, Dominic and Billy...they just went right along with my imagination of hobbits, based completely on the picture of Bilbo riding out on the barrel on the cover of The Hobbit (another Tolkien watercolor) and this Fangorn print.I can stop talking about this now, since probably no one but me finds it all that interesting! ;-)

2,206 posted on 04/11/2002 8:32:39 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: 2Jedismom
AHHH - Now I see it... the little pile of belongings was what I thought was the figure (the actual figure I looked at but couldn't recognize)... so I was looking for little dinky hobbits. Now that I see Merry I can recognize the other one of Pippen too. It looked like a bush and I just couldn't see it, because his face blends in with the background color! - Thanks.
2,207 posted on 04/11/2002 8:38:21 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
Pippin.... hehehe [sip]
2,208 posted on 04/11/2002 8:40:31 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
LOL!! You just don't know how relieved I am! You know how crazy people look at ink blots and read all kinds of stuff into them? I was beginning to feel like that's what I was doing! Ha ha!

Really they are much clearer though, on my own book. Even so, it wasn't until recently that I found the one lying down...I found the climbing one a few years ago.

Now go up to the big picture of the whole cover. See the thin green tree in the foreground? I think I see two eyes, a nose and a mouth discreetly placed in the bark...but then that might truly be the "ink blot" thing. But to me, I think that's "Treebeard" and he looks surprised!

2,209 posted on 04/11/2002 8:43:49 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: 2Jedismom
I can see what you mean... Could be Treebeard.... then again, could be ink-blots!
2,210 posted on 04/11/2002 8:46:21 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: 2Jedismom
Is this the same picture?

It's at http://217.23.146.97/texts/eng/pbjrrt/37c.html. The description is ". Mirkwood and Beleg finds Gwindor in Taur-nu-Fuin (entitled Fangorn Forest)

2,211 posted on 04/11/2002 9:13:05 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: 2Jedismom
Is this the same picture?

It's at http://217.23.146.97/texts/eng/pbjrrt/37c.html. The description is ". Mirkwood and Beleg finds Gwindor in Taur-nu-Fuin (entitled Fangorn Forest)

2,212 posted on 04/11/2002 9:13:05 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: 2Jedismom
Drat!
2,213 posted on 04/11/2002 9:14:07 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
Hmmm... The description is a little confusing to call it Mirkwood if the Title is Fangorn.... And in this shot I can tell that "Pippin" is most definately wearing shoes.... hmmmm...
2,214 posted on 04/11/2002 9:19:11 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog; Overtaxed
Ahhh! You found the picture! And now I find that the story behind it is older even than the LOTR! So those are elves and not hobbits??

I'm having mixed emotions here, but I'm delighted to find out the real story behind the picture. Now I'm dying to know more!

Now I understand that the elf, Beleg is carrying a sword (Anglachel) and I never could figure out why "Pippin" had a sword after being abducted...oh, it's getting so clear!

2,215 posted on 04/11/2002 9:24:27 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: Overtaxed; irishtenor; JenB
....ah-hah, it must have been the "Sauron guided their labors" that made me think that he helped them develop the "ring technology."

Thanks for looking that up, OT....

2,216 posted on 04/11/2002 9:28:18 AM PDT by Penny1
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To: HairOfTheDog; Overtaxed; ecurbh
Here's what it says:

J. R. R. Tolkien stated in a letter of 1937 that the picture of Mirkwood for The Hobbit was itself redrawn from a painting made earlier to illustrate the passage in The Silmarillion (Chapter 21) where Beleg finds Gwindor in the forest of Taur-nu-Fuin. That painting is beyond question the one reproduced here, despite the title 'Fangorn Forest'. In view of the title the two figures would naturally be taken to be the hobbits Pippin and Merry, straying in Fangorn before their encounter with Treebeard (The Two Towers, Book III, Chapter 4). It is clear, however, that this is not so; the figures are elves and not hobbits; and the elf climbing over the tree-roots is Beleg Strongbow of Doriath, bearing his great sword Anglachel (which was afterwards reforged for Tu'rin and from which he became known as the Black Sword of Nargothrond). The other is Gwindor of Nargothrond, lying exhausted after his escape from the mines of Angband, with his lamp beside him.

2,217 posted on 04/11/2002 9:28:21 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: Overtaxed
I just can't tell you how much I appreciate this link! Has it been provided before? If so, I missed a great link!!

The pictures by J. R. R. Tolkien

2,218 posted on 04/11/2002 9:57:59 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: Overtaxed
Thank you so much for the link to JRR's pictures. I haven't seen many of them. My only exposure has been in the Hobbit. I find the history of his drawings fasinating. I wish (as I am sure many others do too) that I could sit down and pick JRR's brain to find out all of his thoughts and reasons for writing what he did, and not writing what he could have.
2,219 posted on 04/11/2002 10:10:38 AM PDT by htur_75
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To: 2Jedismom
Glad you liked it! It was bugging me because I couldn't get a good look at that illustration. I put the link after the picture but I didn't give it a decent name (I wanted lunch!)

I was kind of confused about the picture description, though, and wondered if it had been altered slightly before it made The Two Towers cover.

2,220 posted on 04/11/2002 10:11:40 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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