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The New Hobbit Hole

Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

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To: ecurbh
How did I know you would say that? Just think how much fun you'll have picking out your favorites.... ;)
2,101 posted on 04/09/2002 11:45:41 AM PDT by Penny1
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To: Penny1; HairOfTheDog; BibChr; Overtaxed; ecurbh; MozartLover
Here's something I read last night that just struck me. In the second chapter of The Fellowship of the Ring, Frodo has just told Gandalf that he wished Bilbo had stabbed Gollum, when he had the chance. Gandalf chastises him about it and Frodo says

'I am sorry,' said Frodo. 'But I am frightened; and I do not feel any pity for Gollum.

'You have not seen him,' Gandalf broke in.

'No, and I don't want to,' said Frodo.

Then, in The Two Towers Frodo has just captured Gollum and is recalling the conversation between he and Gandalf. In full, this is what it says:

What a pity Biblo didn't stab the vile creature, when he had a chance!

Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need.

I do not feel any pity for Gollum. He deserves death.

Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give that to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.

Then Frodo says:

'Very well,' he answered aloud, lowering his sword. But still I am afraid. And yet, as you see, I will not touch the creature. For now that I see him, I do pity him.

Sam stared at his master, who seemed to be speaking to someone who was not there. Gollum lifted his head.

I just found it interesting that not only did Frodo recall what Gandalf said to him, but he also recalled that Gandalf had implied that he needed to see Gollum before making up his mind and that now that he had seen him, he was still afraid but now had pity.

2,102 posted on 04/09/2002 1:48:50 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: Penny1
Now see what you made me do?


2,103 posted on 04/09/2002 5:15:57 PM PDT by ecurbh
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To: 2Jedismom
Think this verse might have had some influence on the Gandalf, Frodo, Samwise dialog Tolkien wrote about Gollum?

"Thou art inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things." (Roms. 2:1)

So Frodo, by an act of compassion, saved himself.

2,104 posted on 04/09/2002 5:25:01 PM PDT by DonnerT
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To: JenB
Hehe, yeah....sure Jen.... ;)
2,105 posted on 04/09/2002 5:46:05 PM PDT by Penny1
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To: DonnerT
I know that Tolkien couldn't help but have his faith come through in his books...so it wouldn't surprise me if he was thinking of that verse when he wrote this.

But what struck me in particular about this was how Tolkien took the themes "You haven't seen him." "Now that I've seen him" and "I'm frightened" "I'm still afraid" and carried it from the beginning of the first book all the way to the beginning of the fourth book. I'm not a great literary critic, but to me this just seems astounding. And it's only one example. Tolkien just amazes me.

I read somewhere that Christopher Tolkien had a timeline that his dad did that had down to the minute of each day each thing each character did.

2,106 posted on 04/09/2002 5:47:25 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: ecurbh
LOL....

It's hard to stop, isn't it? ;)

2,107 posted on 04/09/2002 5:47:27 PM PDT by Penny1
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To: ecurbh
The third picture on 2103 is just amazing!

But that's probably just me. :)

2,108 posted on 04/09/2002 5:56:03 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: 2Jedismom
The timeline thing wouldn't surprise me. Perhaps that's why the whole tale flows so well.
2,109 posted on 04/09/2002 6:06:10 PM PDT by DonnerT
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To: 2Jedismom
Managed to get the cover scanned. I had to tear it off but it was already held on only by tape anyway - these copies have been through a lot with me!

Detail of the lower left corner:

The other detail:

Click here for a full-size image of the cover.

2,110 posted on 04/09/2002 6:13:06 PM PDT by ecurbh
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To: Restorer
Nope, its not just you. I love that look! (sigh)
2,111 posted on 04/09/2002 6:14:28 PM PDT by ecurbh
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To: ecurbh
Wow, that's really an impressive job! I can see a couple blobs which I assume to be Hobbits - not your fault that it's hard to see!
2,112 posted on 04/09/2002 6:16:02 PM PDT by JenB
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To: ecurbh
It does show that Tolkien did not think these particular hobbits (or Bilbo...remember him on the barrel?) were all that chubby. This pictures make me think that he considered them fairly graceful, much like small elves. More than once, wasn't it mentioned that Frodo had an elvish quality about him? Because of these pictures, it's easy for me to visualize. And E. Wood does a good job of completing the picture, in my mind.

Now I know that Tolkien mentions that hobbits are inclined to being fat, but I suspect that is the result of a leisurely life, and with age. An inclination, not a rule. And our hobbits were mobile, not couch potatoe hobbits!

2,113 posted on 04/09/2002 7:03:22 PM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: 2Jedismom
I expect that by the time they reached Fanghorn, M and P were a couple of lean hobbits. (Quite unnatural!)
2,114 posted on 04/10/2002 3:28:52 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
Good morning! I agree, Merry and Pippin were probably shadows of their former selves... but then again, so were Sam and Frodo. Especially Sam, who'd give Frodo the last of the food and then carry him up Mt. Doom. Oh well, once they cleaned up the Shire I'm sure they ate well. Actually, Aragorn probably let them eat whatever they wanted while they were waiting around Minas Tirith for Arwen to arrive.
2,115 posted on 04/10/2002 5:11:35 AM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
I get this picture of the hobbits eating all the wedding reception food before the Rivendell contingent gets to Minas Tirith. No wedding cake for Evenstar and Elfstone!
2,116 posted on 04/10/2002 5:25:24 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
Oh, you know Merry and Pippin would do that... hmm, must make note... "Do not invite Hobbits to weddings".
2,117 posted on 04/10/2002 5:26:51 AM PDT by JenB
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To: JenB
At least,don't invite ravenous underfed hobbits right after fighting a war and before your next crop comes in.
2,118 posted on 04/10/2002 5:34:25 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: ecurbh
It's a neat watercolor, entitled "Fangorn" if you notice in the book credits.

I still believe that must be Pippin climbing up the roots, but where is his elven cloak? And get a load of that hair! Much longer than I imagined. And the expression on his face is a little clearer on my copy, very grim. But the one that I think of as Merry, lying on his stomach with his arms flung up around his head, just breaks my heart. He looks so exhausted. But what are those items beside him? Perhaps one is their elven cloaks rolled up into a bundle? I don't know. One looks like a red hood, but I can't imagine that making the trip with the orcs. And Pippin appears to be carrying a sword...which I can't figure out either, after the orcs had them. Did he lift a sword from one of the dead orcs?

Mr. Tolkien has painted a confusing picture, I wish there was someone I could ask that might know!

2,119 posted on 04/10/2002 5:46:21 AM PDT by 2Jedismom
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To: ecurbh
I prefer Legolas myself. But you can always e-mail me pictures of him. :)
2,120 posted on 04/10/2002 7:19:33 AM PDT by htur_75
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