The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

-----------------------------------------

Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[Wordsmith]

Cool, I'll try to catch it! Off for home now on a crisp and lovely New England summer afternoon... G'day!

[HairOfTheDog]

Ahhh... Well, I am now enlightened... yes, pipe-weed and ale could definately be added to that list!

[2Jedismom]

I just got in from the library...got the boys "reward" for finishing the reading program (20 books). The reward was a blow up dolphin...now my lips are numb from blowing them up!

I also got The Peoples of Middle Earth. They wouldn't let me have The Unfinished Tales because I'd reserved it with Steve's card #. :-(

[Overtaxed]

Oh well so much for that idea. I started the movie today with the "English subtitles" option on (the TV's closed caption didn't work). They didn't do subtitles for the Ring....at least they didn't when it spoke at Bag End.

[2Jedismom]

Oh it drives me crazy not knowing what the ring is saying! I know the wraith says something about the Ring "Ashie" or something like that, when attacking Frodo at Weathertop...

It really bugs me too not knowing the chants on the soundtrack...surely this is written down somewhere???

[Overtaxed]

I can understand the Ring sometimes...not at Bag End, however. I can hear the "Baggins" at the Prancing Pony and at the Council I think it's doing that "one ring to rule them all.." in Black Speech. It just subtitled "Baggins" at the Prancing Pony!"

I don't know where the chants are. I can look.....probably in Elvish.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Arwen had to give up quite a bit to follow her heart... and unfortunately she wasn't entirely happy with her decision in the end (sigh).

I think you have hit on the heart of one of the lessons Tolkien included in his stories. We make our choices, hopefully to do what is right, or that which is our heart's desire. But LOTR is definitely not an 'everybody lived happily ever after' fairytale. Frodo, especially, and Legolas had their lives changed unhappily for them, and all the elves realized that the destruction of Sauron would entail their exile. Arwen's acceptance of 'the gift of men', lead her to live a fulfilled life, but suffer a lonely, premature death.

[HairOfTheDog]

What was the question? - Wanting to know what the ring says? Here is this:

From FoTR Script:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In BagEnd:

Frodo: But he was destroyed. Sauron was destroyed.

Ring: < whispers > Isildur…
< alarmed, both Gandalf and Frodo look at the Ring >

Gandalf: No, Frodo. The spirit of Sauron endured.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In Bree:

Frodo: < takes Barliman aside > Excuse me, that man in the corner, who is he?

Butterbur: He’s one of them rangers. Dangerous folk they are-- all wandering the wilds. What his right name is I’ve never heard but around here, he’s known as Strider.

Frodo: Strider...

< Frodo starts to play with the Ring. It starts to whisper, tempting him to use it >

The Ring: Baggins. Baggins. Baggins. Baggins! Baggins!…

Pippin: Baggins!
< Frodo snaps out of his reverie >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In Rivendell:

Gimli: Never trust an elf!

Gandalf: Do you not understand that while we bicker amongst ourselves, Sauron's power grows?! None can escape it!

< Frodo remains seated, watching the Ring uneasily, the angry figures of the council reflected on its surface. Suddenly, flames flare up, engulfing the surface of the Ring >

Ring: Ash Nazg Durbatuluk! Ash Nazg Gimbatul! Ash Nazg Gimbatul! Ash Nazg Gimbatul!

[Isn't this the One Ring to Rule them all... verse?-Hair]

< The intensity of the arguments increase. Slowly, determination dawns on Frodo’s face. He stands and takes a few steps toward the arguing council, trying to make his voice heard above the din >

Frodo: I will take it! I will take it!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At Amon Hen:

Frodo: Would you destroy it?

< Aragorn, looking at the Ring, slowly approaches Frodo. The Ring begins to whisper >

The Ring: Aragorn...Aragorn…Elessar...

< He reaches out. With both hands, Aragorn closes Frodo’s hand over the Ring and pushes it to the hobbit’s chest >

Aragorn: I would have gone with you to the end, into the very fires of Mordor.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Overtaxed]

Okay. Thanks. It also subtitles the Eye when Frodo has the ring on at the Prancing Pony.

[HairOfTheDog]

And I could have looked and answered my own question from the Ring's utterings at the council:

`And if that is not proof enough, Galdor, there is the other test that I spoke of. Upon this very ring which you have here seen held aloft, round and unadorned, the letters that Isildur reported may still be read, if one has the strength of will to set the golden thing in the fire a while. That I have done, and this I have read:

Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.'

The change in the wizard's voice was astounding. Suddenly it became menacing, powerful, harsh as stone. A shadow seemed to pass over the high sun, and the porch for a moment grew dark. All trembled, and the Elves stopped their ears.

`Never before has any voice dared to utter the words of that tongue in Imladris, Gandalf the Grey,' said Elrond, as the shadow passed and the company breathed once more.

`And let us hope that none will ever speak it here again,' answered Gandalf. `Nonetheless I do not ask your pardon, Master Elrond. For if that tongue is not soon to be heard in every corner of the West, then let all put doubt aside that this thing is indeed what the Wise have declared: the treasure of the Enemy, fraught with all his malice; and in it lies a great part of his strength of old. Out of the Black Years come the words that the Smiths of Eregion heard, and knew that they had been betrayed:

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them.

[2Jedismom]

What about Weathertop? Does it say what they wraiths are saying?

[Overtaxed]

Just arrived at Weathertop.

[Overtaxed]

No. It's in Black Speech, isn't it? Wonder if there's a Black Speech options on the subtitles.

[2Jedismom]

LOL! They do say "Ash" something or other... Maybe they are saying "Put on the Ring"? That is what they are saying at Weathertop in Matthew's tapes...Except they are saying it in the Common tongue.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't remember them saying anything at all! - The script doesn't have anything! - Am I going to have to watch it again?

[Overtaxed]

They're saying something. I don't think it's Common Speech.

[2Jedismom]

Right when they are appoaching Frodo. They are saying something in the black speech, definetly and one says "Ashee" or something to that effect.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah - I just put it in and listened... He is muttering isn't he? - Black Speech...

The words are in the script, but the script has some interesting descriptions of the scene...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sam: < brandishing his sword > Back you devils!

< Sam clashes swords with the Nazgul, but is swiftly thrown aside. Merry and Pippin close the gap in front of Frodo, but they too are cast aside. Frodo backs across the hill, dropping his sword with a clatter. He stumbles, falls, and crawls backward until he is backed against a fallen column. Frodo brings out the Ring from his pocket. Immediately, the Witch King feels its presence and approaches Frodo, drawing a long dagger. Frodo tries to scramble back, terrified, but has nowhere to go. Desperately, he slips on the Ring >

< The world changes. The Nazguls’ true forms are revealed to him, shining like ghostly kings. The Witch King reaches out for the Ring, and the Ring responds, lifting Frodo’s own hand towards the wraith. With desperate strength, Frodo yanks his hand back. The Witch King stabs him through the left shoulder with his long dagger, pinning him to the ground, then reaches again for the Ring. Frodo cries out in pain >

< At that moment, Strider leaps over Frodo and attacks the Nazgul with both sword and flaming brand. The Witch King withdraws his dagger and drops it. Frodo summons the strength to pull the Ring from his finger. He reappears in the middle of an anguished scream >

Frodo: Aaaahhhh!

[HairOfTheDog]

Of course, I should have said: "The words aren't in the script" above.... doh!

[HairOfTheDog]

This is semiprecious!