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The New Hobbit Hole

Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole

Concerning Hobbits

The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

-----------------------------------------

Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Chit/Chat; Poetry; TV/Movies; The Hobbit Hole
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To: HairOfTheDog; carton253; JenB
How about Saturday? Maybe we can persuade carton to join us!

Jen, can you make Saturday night?
17,181 posted on 08/07/2002 7:34:23 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed; ksen
Now all I need is a new monitor.....

How about an Old Monitor? You're pretty close to it already...

17,182 posted on 08/07/2002 7:36:50 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: ksen
However....a 20" monitor would be great! But on the other hand I don't think my desk is big enough for two monitors and a cat.
17,183 posted on 08/07/2002 7:37:41 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Corin Stormhands
Nahh...I don't want to deal with all that silt.
17,184 posted on 08/07/2002 7:39:01 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: HairOfTheDog
Hi HOTD! I'm not much of a horse person, but my wife is. She's currently studying a training methodology called Parelli Natural Horsemanship. We've gone to see one of Pat Parelli's clinics. Fascinating stuff, and apparently a great way to work with difficult horses. Folks at our barn are pretty amazed at the way my wife can handle her horse without any bit or bridle, only a halter and lead rope.
17,185 posted on 08/07/2002 7:42:47 AM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: Alkhin
On a related note, in watching the video last night I caught for the first time Saruman's line to Gandalf in Isengard, right before the betrayal. Something like, "you've become overly fond of the halflings' leaf, it's clouded your judgement." Interesting add by PJ.
17,186 posted on 08/07/2002 7:45:08 AM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: Corin Stormhands
Thanks!!! I think so too, but I'm biased of course! ;-)
17,187 posted on 08/07/2002 7:46:41 AM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: Overtaxed
You could... but Carton doesn't have a computer at home. I think it would be great to sit around and chat about LOTR... but, alas, I won't be able to make it.
17,188 posted on 08/07/2002 7:48:06 AM PDT by carton253
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To: HairOfTheDog
Unfortunately, this weekend will not work for me. I have a family thing Friday night, and am working the night shift on Saturday.
17,189 posted on 08/07/2002 7:49:15 AM PDT by ecurbh
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To: carton253
Oh yeah......I forgot about that little detail. :)
17,190 posted on 08/07/2002 7:49:23 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Wordsmith; Alkhin; HairOfTheDog
. Something like, "you've become overly fond of the halflings' leaf, it's clouded your judgement." Interesting add by PJ.

I don't have my copy with me, but didn't he say that, or something similar in the book? Or have I morphed them together?

17,191 posted on 08/07/2002 7:49:42 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: ecurbh; HairOfTheDog
Unfortunately, this weekend will not work for me. I have a family thing Friday night, and am working the night shift on Saturday

The nerve of some people to actually have a life! :)

17,192 posted on 08/07/2002 7:50:50 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: 2Jedismom
They're beautiful! Hard to believe, but my oldest boy has actually OD'd on Star Wars for now. He's tired of all things Star Wars. Expect that will change later, like once AOTC is out on video.

Our family movie night went pretty well. The youngest fell asleep by Rivendell, the oldest was pretty enthralled, the middle boy (age 7) says he enjoyed it but definitely got the heebie jeebies. Oddly, it wasn't the Ringwraiths or even the gross orcs that pushed him over the edge. It was the skeletons when the Fellowship crossed the threshold of Moria, and the glimpse of Gollum. He was pretty nervous about whether there were going to be any more glimpses of Gollum, and I had to assure him that there weren't. The trapped tomb of Moria, the darkness (visually and thematically) of the film at this point definitely unsettled him. The release of the battle in the chamber of Balin's Tomb, and the Balrog, actually helped.

17,193 posted on 08/07/2002 7:51:52 AM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: Overtaxed
..."actually to have a life."

I split an infinitive before it's time. My bad.

17,194 posted on 08/07/2002 7:52:32 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: JenB
Hi! Somewhat disappointing, to be honest. I was surprised by how much of the impact of the film was lost on the small screen. The thundering hoofs of the Black Riders, the dizzying camera dive off the peak of Orthanc, so much was diminished. The characters are so much larger than life, can fill up a big screen so well, the change to small screen was more pronounced than with other movies.

The consolation is that the character development comes to the foreground more. Maybe because the drama was less dramatic, and I needed less emotional "recovery time," the slower character-based scenes seemed more drawn out.

Some relationships jumped out at me more. Legolas's depth of feeling for Aragorn (he defends him at the Council of Elrond) and Gandalf post-Khazad Dum were notable. The Aragorn/Boromir dynamic really came forward. 4 key scenes, with subtle use of facial expression and dialogue, really sum up the evolution:

Night in Rivendell, Boromir fingering Narsil. Eyed by Aragorn. Boromir thinking "who's this ruffian?"

The Council. "Gondor needs no king."

Can't remember where, maybe in Moria, Boromir says something to Aragorn like "the lords of Gondor [referring to he and Aragorn] will return." So he now thinks of Aragorn as an equal.

And of course the death scene. Aragorn has resisted the temptation that has bested Boromir. Boromir's final acceptance of Aragorn's superiority. "My captain, my king!" Great stuff.

17,195 posted on 08/07/2002 8:00:34 AM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: HairOfTheDog; Corin Stormhands; 2Jedismom; Overtaxed
IGOTIT IGOTIT IGOTIT!!!!!!

Well, I am playing my morning movie while I sip my coffee

Corin, Jr. and I started watching last night after we got home from National Night Out

I hate you guys....I'm tryin to hold out till November...and y'all ain't helpin...

Hullo all, sorry I haven't been around much...nose to the grindstone...got a break just in time to witness OT's spastic snatch of the 000precious...made my day.

So Corin, when can I come down to Richmond and watch TTT on your new 61" NEC PlasmaSync 61MP1 Gas Plasma TV?...it's only $19,995...I know yer good fer it...


17,196 posted on 08/07/2002 8:01:29 AM PDT by g'nad
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To: Corin Stormhands
I don't think it's in the book, unless it's in Gandalf's tale about his capture during the Council of Elrond. Be interesting if you find it.

I also have a new appreciation for the script writer. The Tolkien and non-Tolkien language blends seamlessly. Except maybe "she-elf..."

17,197 posted on 08/07/2002 8:05:22 AM PDT by Wordsmith
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To: g'nad
So Corin, when can I come down to Richmond and watch TTT on your new 61" NEC PlasmaSync 61MP1 Gas Plasma TV?...

Corin's got one of those? I vote for Richmond for Entmoot 2004!

17,198 posted on 08/07/2002 8:06:05 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: g'nad
So Corin, when can I come down to Richmond and watch TTT on your new 61" NEC PlasmaSync 61MP1 Gas Plasma TV?...it's only $19,995...I know yer good fer it...

You whine about not having FOTR on DVD and then want to wait to watch The Two Towers on DVD? You been runnin' already this mornin'?

But, if you can't stand Corin, Jrs' bedroom (not entirely unlike a trip through Moria), you're welcome to come watch it on a standard screen...

But for heaven's sake, if you're not going to buy it, at least go rent it...

17,199 posted on 08/07/2002 8:06:15 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands
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To: Corin Stormhands
I don't have my copy with me, but didn't he say that, or something similar in the book?

I believe the only time in the books where we "see" Gandalf and Saruman face to face, is when they're on the road back to Shire...I don't recall that comment...could be wrong...

17,200 posted on 08/07/2002 8:07:24 AM PDT by g'nad
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