The New Hobbit Hole

[Restorer]

My two least favorite portions of the movie are the Council of Elrond and the Mines of Moria. Both seem to be poorly edited (although only by comparison with the rest of the movie, not to movies in general).

For one thing, they have Boromir immediately recognize Aragorn's name, as if everybody in Gondor knew that Aragorn was Isildur's heir, they just didn't know where he was.

PJ slips a little on portraying some of the depth of history here, I think. It's been like well over a thousand years since there's been any contact between the Rangers and Gondor and since the last King disappeared in Gondor. So when Aragorn pops up as a candidate for the throne, it would be like a claimant for the present-day British throne who's descended from the pre-Norman Anglo-Saxon Kings. Aragorn does an amazing job of convincing all these fractious aristocrats to whole-heartedly accept him as their king.

[carton253]

The scene with Aragorn/Arwen where she cheers him up with her faith in him is not realistic, IMHO, for that time in Aragorn's life. Although it might be very appropriate for the period 40 years or so earlier when they get engaged. They've obviously compressed some of the history of their relationship timewise. I don't have a real problem with that, as I think it works fairly well. The only alternative would be some type of flashback scene to Lorien, which would just confuse the newbies no end.

Again, I agree with you... but isn't in interesting the way it unfolds on screen. You have Elrond's "he has exiled himself", then you see Strider (that's how we know him at that time) reading a book. Then you see Boromir for the 2nd time. At first you think it is Boromir that will lead them. The controversy between Aragorn and Boromir is born in that scene. Strider watching. Boromir handling the sword of Narsil like it's a relic until he sees that he is watched. Then he drops it like its no big deal.

Next we have Strider pick it up and loving put it into place, and then comes Arwen who introduces the audience to Aragorn. This is the one who has chosen exile. He's the heir of the throne. He's the king. (Then comes the clunky love scene... it's beautifully done, but it's like... time out, insert obligatory love scene... okay back to the action) In the council, Legolas introduces Strider to both Boromir and Frodo. And you see the dismay in Boromir's eyes and the wonder in Frodo's.

[Overtaxed]

Nothing at all! (perhaps you could be nicer to the elveses?) hehehehehe

I will be nice to elves. I will be nice to elves. I will be nice to elves, even when Haldir looks down his nose. I will be nice to Haldir and his gang of snoots.

Hey...I'm working on it. :)

[Restorer]

I agree that PJ did an astounding job. Although I have an occasional criticism as to the flow of the movie, I wouldn't really have a clue about how to do it better.

I suspect if I had made the movie, it would have been three 9-hour films! And since I don't have his genius, they would have been true to the book, but stunk as movies.

[Restorer]

BTW, has anybody been able to pick out what book Aragorn is reading in this scene? I've tried, but haven't been able to read the title in the couple of seconds it's on screen.

[carton253]

From the script:

LEGOLAS:
This is no mere ranger. He is Aragorn, son of Arathorn. You owe him your allegiance.

BOROMIR:
Aragorn? This... is Isildur's heir?

LEGOLAS:
And heir to the throne of Gondor.

ARAGORN:
Havo dad Legolas (Sit down Legolas)

BOROMIR:
Gondor has no king. Gondor needs no king.

Well, he is Aragorn II. So, maybe (and it's a big maybe) the name Aragorn did ring a bell. Or, as Stewards, they were aware of the names of the kings. (Again, just supposition) So, they knew that Arathorn had a son named Aragorn. They are familiar with the name, but not the face.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's in the mail. - And try not to hold it against Haldir that he had is nose in the air.

I mean, did you ever consider how long it had been since the fellowship had had a bath? I think hygiene and grooming is very important to elves. Legolas never had a hair out of place, even in battle.

When Aragron walks up to Haldir, I bet he smelled real bad, and the breath was probably bad too... I didn't see the the group packing any tubes of Crest along on their way, but I bet they had it when they left Lothlorien!

[carton253]

Nah... I'm too busy looking at Aragorn.

[Restorer]

Just finished reading the section about the Rangers in the Appendix. They haven't really had any contact with Gondor since the fall of Arthedain, over a thousand years ago. I think the book makes it real clear that the men of Gondor, with possible exception of sneaky Denethor and his palantir, have completely forgotten that the Rangers are still out there.

When Boromir comes to Rivendell, he's coming to a place that the men of Gondor view as a myth, they've been out of touch with the North for so long.

[Overtaxed]

I will be nice to snoots. I will be nice to snoots..I mean, elves. I will be nice to elves.....

[2Jedismom]

Can you guys give me the links for the preview again? I've lost them! They didn't work the last time I tried, but if at first you don't succeed. . .

[2Jedismom]

Oh and good morning!!

[Overtaxed]

Good Morning! Having eggses for breakfast? :)

[carton253]

Then that's how Boromir knew... because Denethor knew what Gandalf was doing with Aragorn. He probably shared it with Boromir. What do you think?

[Overtaxed]

I dunno...seeing how proud Denethor was, I think he wouldn't tell Boromir about the whole Gandalf/Aragorn thing.

[HairOfTheDog]

# 1535 and 1546 (1546 is working at the moment)

[carton253]

I dunno... I think Denethor and Boromir were close. You can see that in the relationship Denethor has with Faramir. Of course, since Tolkien doesn't say, it is just guess work on my part.

But Restorer is right. If the kings had been gone for 1000 years from Gondor, how would Boromir have recognized the name of Aragorn, son of Arathorn. Do you have any ideas?

[2Jedismom]

With 1546, I just get this stuff. It goes on like this forever. Will it work if I keep trying it? I understand Jen's link will work if you keep trying. So, I''ll keep trying 1535. I need a fix! ;-)

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[Overtaxed]

It's just my opinion, but I see Denethor as too proud to go whining about Thorongil to anybody. And Boromir doesn't seem to resent Aragorn on the journey south.

If the kings had been gone for 1000 years from Gondor, how would Boromir have recognized the name of Aragorn, son of Arathorn. Do you have any ideas?

Not unless he recognized the name "Aragorn" from one of the old kings. Isn't our Aragorn "Aragorn II." But still that old king would have been from the Northern Kingdom and I'm not sure if the Gondor folk would keep up with Northern Kingdom lineages.

[carton253]

Of course, in the book, the tell tale sign of "kingship" was the sword that had been broken. In the Council of Elrond, Aragorn showed it to Boromir and Boromir accepted it (barely).

So, now we get a clearer picture. It wasn't the name that Boromir recognized; it was the sword. That's from the book. In the movie, it was the name, since the sword is in pieces still.