Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
I don't mind the scene, because the cover of my old '70s book has a watercolor done by Tolkien, showing M and P at the base of a "tree" with very startled eyes and one of the hobbits is scrambling up the roots of this tree. I always thought it was Pippin, because the other is lying face down, as if recovering from exhaustion.
The Template I prepared (and the ping list) for Chapter 7 is still at the Yahoo site. If you would like to do it today, Feel free. Jen wasn't sure she would have time either today, and I know I don't. I wouldn't be able to do it myself until tomorrow.
You want to do it? The index link for the last chapter post that Jen did last week is the only one that would have to be added, and whatever intro you would want to write.
Argh! ;-)
Thank God for T-1 connections, eh?
I think maybe they're using a visual to emphasize what Gandalf said at one point, that in some ways he IS Saruman the White--as Saruman the White should have been. I think making him look like him is part of that, plus he has to look different enough (and enough like Saruman) that our three highly intelligent, observant heroes would not recognize him without looking foolish.
I also think PJ is using comparison-contrast with Gandalf and Saruman--by making their appearance somewhat similar, you see how it is that they differ.
The only thing that I'm not sure about is the way Gandalf is speaking--I hope that we will still see the kind, personable part of his character. He seems a bit unapproachable in the preview, it'll be interesting to see how they hang on to some of Gandalf the Gray's personality. Maybe it will be the hobbits in particular that bring that out in him...
I pretty much expected him to be "all in white" like Saruman. I just didn't think that Gandalf would go for the limp, straight hairdo (wonder how long it'll take him to straighten out his beard.) As for our observant heroes, have any of them seen Saruman before? I know they expect him to be all in white and hooded (if memory serves...I don't have TTT with me today).
(Gandalf having a bad hair day?) :))
Did you notice how much shorter G's beard is?
What I wasn't prepared for was how bright he is--that was so cool!
How cool is it that the most exciting things we have to say about the preview for TTT is how all the characters are changing and growing? Some bozo could have come in and made this movie and series of movies just a plain old fantasy/adventure that would have been fun but would lack depth. But in this case, the characters are so obviously of primary importance. And there are so many wonderful characters to follow, and each one of them is being shown to change and grow throughout the course of the movies.
Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest--it's been such a long time since anything of this quality has hit movie screens...
Jeeeennnnn! Help!
And in the book, when Gandalf does appear, he acts weird. He acts like Gandalf is just a vague memory... "hhmm... yes, I suppose I was Gandalf". I don't know if he was actually having to remember, or if he was just putting them on and acting aloof. He later seems to return to the old self.
'Gandalf', the old man repeated, as if recalling from old memory a long disused word. 'Yes, that was the name. I was Gandalf.'He stepped down from the rock, and picking up his grey cloak wrapped it about him: it seemed as if the sun had been shining, but now was hid in a cloud again. 'Yes, you may still call me Gandalf,' he said, and the voice was the voice of their old friend and guide.
This is another one of those times when I hope they put this part in the movie! I can just see this being done so well!!!
Is it DECEMBER YET????
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