Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
That sounds encouraging vis a vis whether to read it or not.
"His views on sexuality, as reflected in this book, left something to be desired, in my opinion. I definitely wouldn't give it to my 11 year old daughter to read. "
But did you think he necessarily approved of such casual marriages? 'Course there's alot of stuff that I think is really OK for us that I wouldn't have wanted my kids to read, when they were little.
His being a Mormon does seem to ring a bell.
I'm 1/4 Irish, FWIW.
LOL! - Did you really mean what you just said? See you later on tonight!
How long have we been friends? ;-)
Didn't realize the guy was that prolific a writer.
Uh, ahem, I am a Rocky Horror Picture Show virgin. (I've never seen it in the theater).
The first part of it I think is pretty funny (I even know the steps to "Time Warp"). But once they go "upstairs" I've had about all I can take of that one...
I'm a big fan of Little Shop of Horrors. I've actually thought about writing a book about raising a middle-schooler and calling it Little Shop of Hormones.
Let's put it this way Bear, I'm pretty conservative. But I'm also one of those "artsy" types... some people call it schizophrenia
Sounds pretty fair to me!
Depends oh how often they do that. As far as I can remember, my parents left us with younger siblings less than five times throughout our (me and my older sister) teens (and they even fretted about that.)
In my family we have a story about my father's parents and their family. They were Finnish immigrants and moved to a homestead in far northern Minnesota (near Ely, 100 miles north of Duluth for those who know the area). My grandmother was already 35 years old when she started her family(about 1890). This was before cars, roads, or snow plows in that part of the world. My grandmother proceeded to have 15 children who survived childhood diseases.
What with work clearing the trees and raising crops, in addition to the work in providing for such a large household, before labor saving gadgets, while my grandfather spent much of his time employed at the iron mines in the Mesabi range, there was a lot of time when most of the work caring for the younger children was handled by the older children. My father was born about 20 years after his oldest sibling, and a few were born after him (my grandmother had children nearly until she was 60!!).
Of course, the children were not left alone, as there would have been very few occasions for my grandmother to leave the homestead, except for church. One result of this is that my father was friendliest with some of his nieces and nephews, who were his age (one niece was Maid of Honor at my parents wedding).
I think that you are talking about parents who are going off and giving total responsibility to the children as baby sitters, not this old style large family job sharing referred to here. I am sorry to have gone on so much about my family history, but we are fond of these not so old stories. This vigorous lifestyle must be good for you, since both of my father's parents lived into their 90's, passing away at home in the 1950's.
Neither have I... I have seen it many times on video and on cable, though. On the other hand, I've never seen Little Shop of Horrors.
You probably already know that Finnish, a non Scandinavian language whose roots I don't know, was one of JRRT's favorite languages.
"This vigorous lifestyle must be good for you, since both of my father's parents lived into their 90's, passing away at home in the 1950's."
I wonder about the diet, bet it wasn't low fat. More likely, less sugar. And the necessity to move alot in those days. At 54, I'm the oldest living member of my family, which is a frightening thought.
That sounds forbidding. Hope you'll be OK.
Yes, I found that out years after I started reading LOTR. Finnish is one of the Finno-Ugric languages (including Estonian, it's closest relation, and Magyar (Hungarian), it also has relatives with only remnants remaining within the Soviet Union, such as Samoyed. There is a theory that it is related to Turkish and therefor to the Tartar languages, and possibly even to Mongolian and its relatives. It is not related to the European languages (Germanic, Romance, Keltic, Greek, Slavic, etc. any nearly as close as is Hindu or Persian, since these languages are all part of the Indo-European language family, which Finnish is most certainly not.
The Finnish culture is also alien to even it's Scandinavian neighbors, except for recent cultural osmosis. I guess that Tolkien got involved with Finnish because of his interest in northern culture and languages, and came in contact with Finnish because of it's geographical closeness, contrasting with it's cultural and linguistic alien nature, which made it interesting to him. This is conjecture on my part, since I have not read the letters, or the analysis of his linguistic creations in LOTR.
French mothers and Irish mothers were both mothers? (nyuck, nyuck, nyuck.) I think the roots of the words "Gaelic" and "Gallic" are different. "Gallic" has a Latin root and "Gaelic" has a Gaelic root.
I'm an hour away from Greensboro.
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