Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
When I saw it I thought it was Denethor too, I confused his poem (spoken by Aragorn in the book) with the mournful comments Denethor says about Boromir.
Ahhh...I found the poem. Aragorn says it in the book. It's about Eorl the Young, so it's certainly Theoden.
The whole crowd of us just went burzurk. I literally perspired! My hands were shaking! I was pretty excited!
Denethor 
Theoden 
Keep an eye out for bootlegs!
In the scene where Merry and Pippin are sitting together looking at something, Merry does indeed have his wound on his forehead!
I still can't get over Gandalf. And Grima! Yeck!
Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?Songs and Poems in the Lord of the Rings
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?
Pretty sure that's Eomer.
from alt.fan.tolkien:
The 39MB .mov file now going around WinMX is one of the earlier trailers for FOTR, although it's named The Two Towers. The smaller .avi file you might find named The Two Towers with a (2002)[DiVX] tag is a clip from some Brad Pitt movie.I've seen a couple of requests on news://alt.binaries.multimedia for the TTT trailer. If someone records the trailer, especially one of the regular rippers/bootleggers of movies and trailers, that's the newsgroup where you'll find it posted very soon, and it'll be the real deal. Or else the newsgroup will get all over the person's case soon afterwards. Trust the long-standing newsgroups first before the file-sharing services, that's where I've had the best luck finding good-quality LOTR and other sf/fantasy specials. There are too many rip-offs and porn clips under other names on WinMX and Morpheus, except that I did luck out on Morpheus a while back to grab the animations of The Hobbit and Bakshi's LOTR.
Interestingly, it did refer to the same review by Edwin Muir that you identified. The following passage is on pg. 148.
"Edwin Muir's complaint was that the whole work was sub adult in its painlessness. 'The good boys, having fought a deadly battle, emerge at the end of it triumphant and happy, as boys would naturally expect to do.' There is a simple reply to this, which is to say that Frodo does not end up well or happy, and that he avoids any suggestion of triumph, seeming in the end incurably scarred, a 'burnt out case.' He is admittedly taken away to be cured of his wounds, like King Arthur... But there are other people, and creatures and things, which cannot be taken away or healed. In fact, it is much easier to make out a case for Tolkien being a pessimist than as a foolish or childish optomist; it is another of the qualities that mark him out from most of those who have imitated him.
Thus, it is obvious that many of the senior characters in the Lord of the Rings envisage defeat as a long term prospect. Galadriel says 'Through the ages of the world, we have fought the long defeat.' ... The whole history of Middle Earth seems to show that good is attained only at vast expense while evil recuperates almost at will... Morever, it is made extremely clear that even the destruction of the ring and the overthrow of Sauron will conform to the general pattern of fruitlessness...The destruction of the ring, says Galadriel, will mean that her ring and Gandalf's and Elrond's will all lose their power, so that Lothlorien 'fades' and the elves dwindle. Along with them will go the Ents and the dwarves, indeed the whole of Middle Earth, to be replaced be modernity and the dominion of men."
The passage then goes on to suggest that Tolkien placed his characters in such seeming hopless circumstances in order to give them opportunity to show courage against evil and rise above. He therefore removed "easy hope from them."
Does anyone know where in the South Miami area LOTR is being shown with the preview?
I always wondered why the Elves couldn't make new rings and rebuild. Or is rebuilding strictly a Man thing.
I did read somewhere, I think, that the elves were not even supposed to be on Middle Earth, but had gone there so that they could be "artists," or be of a higher caste, and have powers. I definitely read that Galadriel was there through participation in some kind of rebellion, but was forgiven (because she resisted the temptation of the ring and its power) and was allowed to return to the west. So, just as most of the Numenoreans were destroyed for attempting to go to the land of immortality, the elves were not going to be allowed to remain on Middle Earth.
Another reason to bash Elves. They came to ME just so they could lord it over everyone else! It figures. :D
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