Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
What happened to all the dwarves? I thought they'd be sneaking around this morning!
Honestly, I was gonna start the new thread as soon as there is something of a clamour for it with enough fire and desire to get good discussion going... Participation in it had gotten fairly compulsory for me, and not as fun, free flowing and thought provoking as it was when we were discussing it more spontaneously before the thread started.
What do we do about it? I had even thought of starting Two Towers weekly posts as part of the New Hobbit Hole instead of seperate from it.... Kind of like the "Captains Log" for the week... and let our regular conversation drift in and out of it as we go... It was a thought that was floating around when we were talking about a new thread anyway.
I know there are a lot of lurkers in the Green Dragon, but I felt, except for you die-hards, I was posting in a vacuum. My posts were becoming uninspired... and the variety of opinions and variety of people had dwindled to about four of us... Four of us that I love, but I can talk to you guys here...
Well, that is the rambling thought on it. I need inspiration to start it again and have it be good.
Some people like all those zeros, I guess... truthfully, I never thought much of it, I just liked joining in on the mad scramble with all of those who did. :)
After yesterday's trailer posting, interest in the Two Towers seems to have picked up (or was that just a one day happening?) I was thinking that doing the Two Towers thing while anticipating the next movie's release would be fun...discussing the book and speculating on the movie. Now if New Line would only co-operate by releasing the old trailer, new trailers, pictures....
If it's just going to be mostly we hole dwellers, we might as well keep it on this thread. It's hard to judge lurker interest as long as lurkers...well...lurk.
That is in the written work. However now we are talking about two towers pictured in a poster for Peter Jackson's video interpretation of Tolkien's book(s).
It seems clear to me that PJ intends to link Orthanc with Barad-Dur. I believe this can be proven by Gandalf's quote in the trailer and then more recently in Galadriel's voice over in the new teaser trailer.
So the movie poster intends to show Orthanc in the foreground, and Barad-Dur in the background. Your leaves are safe Hair.
Update for HOTD:
The fellowship has made it through Moria. However they are down one walker because Gandalf couldn't avoid the whip of a falling Balrog (or if you're Ian McKellan, a falling Balrock).
Nice post, and I agree with your sentiments. I can't find the typo, but my brain has been known to hide those from me.
I'm not posting to that thread unless I'm directly pinged. My tastes are obviously too plebian for PJ-Comix's high standards.
Oohh! THAT'S what that was. I thought Eowyn just had a big fluttery cape on during a windy day.
Well, if you ever start taking a vote I like your idea above. Keeping everything over in the Hobbit Hole would be much more tidy and probably give rise to more participation then if stuff were spread out among multiple threads.
Someone's got to have a lot of gall to criticize fantasy/sci-fi with a name like Comix. I wonder if he really does like comics. I didn't know there were a lot of deep, reality-based comic books out there. I guess I've been out of the market longer than I thought. Maybe I'll go see if I can pick up Sense and Sensibility issue #4 on my way home tonight.
You got it. We're breaking for luncheon now. Next update will be in a bit.
Exactly. Or perhaps "Best Novel Ever Written as Judged by Reading the Cliff Notes."
From his comments, I'd just like to take a look at his reading list...
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