Curtis Yarvin says America was Rotten Since the Beginning (YouTube)

YouTube ^ | May 19, 2026 | Rufo & Lomez

[ProgressingAmerica]

Curtis Yarvin joins Christopher Rufo and Jonathan “Lomez” Keeperman to dissect Trump’s two administrations, the hollowing out of GOP power, and performative vs. real politics and to debate America’s founding history.

[x]

“Woke right” is a silly, stupid, propagandistic term. There’s nothing “woke” about the alt.right.

[ek_hornbeck]

“Woke right” is a silly, stupid, propagandistic term. There’s nothing “woke” about the alt.right.

I use the term "woke right" to describe politically correct Republicans, i.e. those who support the woke left's hobbyhorses like tearing down Confederate statues, removing Andrew Jackson on the $20 and replacing him with Harriet Tubman, and those who favor liberal immigration policies towards Third World peoples. They've absorbed the left's values systems while voting Republican, perhaps because they just want a tax cut or some particular deregulation.

[ek_hornbeck]

Your entire line of argument confuses that which is invented with that which is discovered. British-style constitutional monarchy and the US constitutional Republic were creations of specific cultures and peoples, a self-expression of their personal instincts and values systems. It wasn't some abstraction that existed in its own right to be discovered - indeed, it is something utterly bizarre and alien to most non-Western (particularly non-Anglo) people. That's precisely why attempts to "democratize" the Middle East are doomed to failure.

Your thinking is analogous to somebody who believes that the internal combustion engine is something that existed a priori nature, like gravity or electromagnetism, as opposed to being the outcome of people's creative impulses.

[Albion Wilde]

Weekend bump

[x]

That makes more sense than applying it to the nutcases on the alt.right.

[ProgressingAmerica]

Ok, well we can agree to disagree.

I mean, I would be happy to continue to chat but I’ve had some long ones with others lately and I think we both know where our ideas are at.

[ProgressingAmerica]

"Yarvin is the fringe of the fringe. Why is he being resurrected now?"

You'd have to ask Christopher Rufo on that one. But it pretty much comes down to either Rufo asked Yarvin or Yarvin asked them.

It could be that with the melting down of Tucker Carlson, Fuentes, and many others, the people who bought into and believe in the message of the woke right had to go somewhere. The followers aren't disappearing, just moving. Yarvin does seem like a logical landing spot for former Groypers.

In any case the term Critical America Theory is even moreso accurate than calling them Woke Right.

Did you watch the video? That was most definitely Critical America Theory coming from Yarvin, no doubt about it.

Also, I wouldn't entirely call Yarvin fringe. He has some friends in high places for sure.

[ProgressingAmerica]

"“Woke right” is a silly, stupid, propagandistic term."

Its been quite accurate to be honest. The playbook being used by neo-Marcusism on the left these days has been exactly the same playbook used by the woke right but with only a few small tweaks. Just watch their actions. But no matter the term Woke Right may have seen its usefulness come to an end with many of them melting down.

The term Critical America Theory has not come to an end.

These people do hate the U.S. and they are not left wingers.

We can't just call them "some people did something" now can we. Nope.

[x]

But they aren’t “woke.” Their concern isn’t with minority groups, inequalities, and perceived oppression. Alt.right was a better term that still applies. In any case, they are a very small group. A larger group questions our interventionist foreign policies. They certainly aren’t “woke” either.

[ek_hornbeck]

I'm fine with that - basically, our disagreement boils down to the fact that you believe that the rights enshrined in the US Constitution and its amendments represent human universals, while I think they are in fact specific to a particular cultural and historical tradition.

Ironically, though we went to war with England to secure our independence, the US Constitution would be unthinkable if England hadn't first had the Magna Carta and the Glorious Revolution. Both would have been unthinkable not only outside of Europe but in much of western Europe outside of the British Isles.

[ek_hornbeck]

I think that some people use the term "woke right" to describe the alt.right because the latter mimics the tactics (though obviously not the ideology) of the Progressive Left - i.e. violent protests, trying to silence critics, etc. People often confuse tactics with ideology.

As far as I'm concerned, "woke" is just another name for a more militant brand of leftist political correctness, i.e. an ideology that gives groups of people who are allegedly in need of "protection" due to their racial/ethnic/sexual identity special privileges (even when they're criminals). Obviously, the alt.right doesn't do this, though they often advocate other ridiculous things.

[ProgressingAmerica]

What is your opinion in regard to the accurateness of the term Critical America Theory?

[ProgressingAmerica]

"to the fact that you believe that the rights enshrined in the US Constitution and its amendments represent human universals"

That is not what I think.

That. Is why we disagree. You don't understand my position, here is how you should have written it.

basically, our disagreement boils down to the fact that you believe that the rights enshrined in the US Constitution and its amendments represent God's gifts, while I think they are in fact specific to a particular cultural and historical tradition.

Yes, that is why we disagree. You think a culture could have invented these things. But I think it could not possibly have been invented by any culture.

"to the fact that you believe that the rights enshrined in the US Constitution and its amendments represent human universals"

No. Our rights are way bigger than any human universals. Human universals are puny by comparison. You aren't thinking big enough. Our rights look right up to Him. Or rather, From. Our rights defy invention, they could only be discovered.

It is a fallacy to believe that there are human universals.

[x]

That’s another propagandistic term James Lindsay came up to tie people he opposes together. I’m not going to make a judgement on that now, but look at it this way: there was a lot of criticism of the US racial history before “Critical Race Theory” came along. It wasn’t all “Critical Race Theory.” So what was and what wasn’t? One would have to come up with a real definition, and so it is with criticism of America and “Critical America Theory.” CRT was an outgrowth of CLS, Critical Legal Studies, so that might be a place to start. At any rate, lumping together everything people have said about and against the country as “Critical America Theory” doesn’t look very serious.

[ProgressingAmerica]

"That’s another propagandistic term James Lindsay came up to tie people he opposes together"

That is a fair assessment on the surface but...

Did you not even watch the video?(starting at 53:00) Did you not see Curtis Yarvin smearing and besmirching the U.S.'s founding for like 20 minutes?

You already objected to Yarvin's perceived irrelevance and that is fine if you think that so if you would prefer to discuss someone else from on the right who smears the Founding feel free to advance a name.

Either way this problem is in fact real.

Not everybody who urinates on the Founding is a leftist.

We need to deal with this problem.

At least James Lindsay has the guts and the spine to stand up to anti-left people who toss poop at the U.S. Founding. He deserves credit for this.

"there was a lot of criticism of the US racial history before “Critical Race Theory” came along"

You know CRT was established in the 1990s right? Just checking.

"At any rate, lumping together everything people have said about and against the country as “Critical America Theory” doesn’t look very serious."

I think Lindsay is using “Critical America Theory” to describe solely and exclusively only the right wingers.

They are a currently overlooked group of America haters. Call them irrelevant all you want they do exist and Yarvin is in fact one of them.