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To: SunkenCiv

To me there is EVERY possibility that the old testament only scratches a small part of just the Middle East portion of “pre-history”, before the flood, which came as the last ice age was ending. I say that with some confidence from the fact that so many ancient 4,000+ year old civilizations that we know of had their own flood stories as well as stories of ancients who came before them.


18 posted on 07/22/2025 11:16:07 AM PDT by Wuli (uire)
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To: Wuli
Then you are saying God created a world of death and suffering long pre-dating the fall of man and introduction of sin and death into the world as described in Genesis. A demon-god who made things like cancer (seen in the fossil record) part of his original "very good" creation. That is not the God of the Bible. And it makes the biblical teaching that the original good state of creation will be restored into a laughingstock. Restored to what, dinosaurs chasing humans across the landscape of Heaven? Rather, the record of suffering and death in the fossils is from the Kataclusmos of Noah's time. The ice age is the natural result of warmed oceans from the cataclysmic events of his time leading to high precipitation and rapid snow buildup over dust and cloud-enshrouded cold continental interiors in the years following.

The Bible says death is the 'last enemy' to be defeated. In the old-earth telling death has been around long before man and is the driver of evolutionary processes. It is painful that people try to mate these two contradictory concepts.

As a monoglacialist I'd point out that evidence for "interglacials" is weak and better interpreted as rapid icefield edge fluctuations in a single ice age. This explains why we don't have significant evidence of animal extinctions in the interglacials, yet we have extensive animal extinctions at the actual close of the ice age. If the interglacials were real those extinctions should have happened at the first interglacial in particular.

22 posted on 07/22/2025 11:34:09 AM PDT by EnderWiggin1970
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To: Wuli

There aren’t so many. The Old Testament refers to The Deluge, which is something similar to a written legend from India.

The Sumerian king list (I think there are two extant known copies) list “kings before the Flood” and after, with the reign lengths starting with tens of thousands of years then declining.

There’s an alluvial layer, a big strata of sand over Ur, no artifacts (Woolley found this), then the locals resumed building on top of the sand. There was a jump to conclusions that the sand layer represented the Flood, but it has never been found in any other Sumerian or Mesopotamian sites, which suggests it was a dam failure a few miles upriver from Ur.

Other flood stories describe tsunamis nearly exclusively. A 2nd M BC event in China resulted in a lot of standing water and the generation or more of effort to drain the puddles as it were was recorded sometime after the fact.

The fact is, there isn’t anything like the Noah story, yet these other stories are brought up as if they support it, but none of them (including the Sumerian flood story) isn’t really anything like it. So, trying to support the idea with other sources always results in a repudiation of conflicting details.

https://www.livius.org/sources/content/anet/266-the-sumerian-king-list/

https://www.worldhistory.org/Eridu_Genesis/

The Egyptian story sounds like it provided the basis for Plato’s Timaeus:

https://www.worldhistory.org/Book_of_the_Heavenly_Cow/

https://www.arcus-atlantis.org.uk/atlantis/timaeus-critias.html#22c


34 posted on 07/22/2025 12:00:26 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (The moron troll Ted Holden believes that humans originated on Ganymede.)
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