[Captain Walker]

Suppose winning were defined to be, a Ukraine, at least a part of which remains geographically intact, sovereign, and free to make security alliances as it pleases.

Would you then concede that for Ukraine to win would be desirable?

Um, no.

I would extend to Russia the same courtesy we demand here in the US re: the Monroe Doctrine.

(IOW, if it was bad for Russia to put missiles in Cuba and JFK was correct in stopping them, then it's bad for the Ukraine to get in a security alliance with NATO where NATO can put arms close to Russia.)

[ansel12]

“”””I would extend to Russia the same courtesy we demand here in the US re: the Monroe Doctrine.
(IOW, if it was bad for Russia to put missiles in Cuba and JFK was correct in stopping them, then it’s bad for the Ukraine to get in a security alliance with NATO where NATO can put arms close to Russia.)””””

Idiotic that you don’t know the difference between keeping European empires and wars out of this part of the world, the least violent and warlike, versus trying to prevent the horrors of the European World Wars in Europe and the conquest of the world by communism.