Posted on 07/03/2025 5:38:42 PM PDT by Angelino97
Your “Sun god worshiper” jab is juvenile and baseless—Christians don’t worship the sun, and you know it. Your argument that Christ is our rest only if we’re saved doesn’t negate that He fulfills the Sabbath’s purpose (Hebrews 4:9-11). Yes, Genesis 2:2-3 shows God rested on the seventh day, setting an example.
But where’s the verse commanding all humanity to keep it pre-Sinai? You’re assuming a mandate that’s not there.
Jesus kept the Sabbath because He was under the Mosaic Law as a Jew (Galatians 4:4-5). He fulfilled the Law, not perpetuated it for Christians (Matthew 5:17). Show me one New Testament verse where Jesus or the apostles command Gentile believers to keep the seventh-day Sabbath. You can’t—Colossians 2:16-17 calls Sabbaths shadows of Christ, and Romans 14:5-6 gives freedom on worship days.
Your obsession with Saturday as the day ignores that Christians worship on Sunday to honor Christ’s resurrection (Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2). If God designated one day, why does Scripture allow flexibility? You’re clinging to the Law over the reality of Christ.
Why aren’t you trusting His finished work instead of a calendar day?
Bring a clear New Testament mandate for Sabbath-keeping, or your case is just Adventist rhetoric, not biblical truth.
Look up the bane for Sunday in Latin or Italian or French or Spanish.
They are variations of Dominus ie the Lord’s day.
English keeps the pagan god’s names in the days of the week and months of the year.
Give up English and use only Polish. The days of the week and months of the year have no pagan god’s nanes
You sure are quick to judge.
“The Catholic Church hasn’t changed the Ten Commandments but follows a traditional numbering based on Deuteronomy 5 and Exodus 20, as summarized in the Catechism. Both Catholic and Protestant versions cover the same core commandments, just organized differently due to historical interpretations. For example, Catholics combine the prohibition on other gods and idols into one commandment, while Protestants often split them. The substance remains the same.
The Ten Commandments appear in Exodus 20:2–17 and Deuteronomy 5:6–21, but the biblical text doesn’t explicitly number them as “first,” “second,” etc.
The division into ten is a later interpretive choice, and different traditions have grouped the verses slightly differently:
Both the Catholic AND Lutheran numbering are based on the tradition of St. Augustine (5th century), Catholics combine the prohibition against “no other gods” and “no graven images” (Exodus 20:3–6) into the first commandment, emphasizing the unity of worshiping God alone. To maintain ten commandments, Catholics then split the prohibition on coveting (Exodus 20:17) into two: coveting a neighbor’s wife (ninth) and coveting goods (tenth).
Most non Lutheran Protestant: Many Protestants, following some Jewish traditions and later Protestant reformers like John Calvin, treat “no other gods” (Exodus 20:3) as the first commandment and “no graven images” (Exodus 20:4–6) as the second. They then combine the coveting prohibitions (Exodus 20:17) into a single tenth commandment.
The Bible doesn’t number the commandments explicitly, so early Christians, like Augustine, grouped them in a way that made sense theologically. Catholics follow his approach, combining the worship of God alone into one commandment, while Protestants split it into two and combine the coveting commands. Neither changes the text; it’s just a different way to count to ten
Bipolar, Vespa, your Seventh day Adventist claim that Seventh-day Adventists alone worship on God’s designated day—because it’s the Sabbath Jesus kept and supposedly the eternal heavenly standard—doesn’t hold water biblically or historically
Yes, Genesis 2:2-3 shows God rested on the seventh day, and Jesus, as a Jew under the Mosaic Law, observed the Sabbath (Luke 4:16). But you’re ignoring the bigger picture. The Sabbath was part of the Old Covenant, fulfilled by Christ (Matthew 5:17). The New Testament never commands Christians to keep the seventh-day Sabbath. Instead, Colossians 2:16-17 calls Sabbaths shadows pointing to Christ, our true rest (Hebrews 4:9-11). Romans 14:5-6 grants freedom in choosing worship days. Where’s your clear apostolic mandate for Saturday worship?
Christians worship on Sunday, the Lord’s Day, to honor Christ’s resurrection, the cornerstone of our faith (Mark 16:9, Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2). This isn’t paganism or a papal conspiracy—it’s rooted in the early Church’s practice, guided by the apostles and their successors.
Sunday worship reflects the new creation in Christ, not a rejection of God’s will.
Your idea that the seventh-day Sabbath will be observed in heaven for eternity is pure speculation. Isaiah 66:23, often cited by Adventists, speaks of new moons and Sabbaths in a prophetic context, not a literal eternal Saturday service. Revelation describes ceaseless worship of God (Revelation 7:15), not a weekly calendar. Why assume heaven’s worship is bound to one Old Covenant day?
You ask if I’d want to “miss out” on your version of worship. I’m not missing anything—Catholics worship God daily, especially in the Eucharist, the source and summit of our faith (John 6:53-56, 1 Corinthians 11:23-25). If you think Saturday worship is the ticket to eternity, show me where the New Testament demands it for Christians. Until then, your argument’s just Adventist nonsense just like the “soul sleep” or “Investigative Judgement”.
The SDA is a Satanic religion created in 1844 by a false prophetess who had numerous failed prophecies
There has been conflict for 2,000 years, and each is guilty of violence, harassment, and misdeeds against the other.
But while we often hear of Christian misdeeds against Jews, if you cite Jewish misdeeds against Christians, it's called "anti-Semitism." We're not supposed to talk of such things. The very phrase "Jewish misdeeds" is "anti-Semitic."
This makes it impossible to have honest dialog between Christians and Jews. All current "interfaith dialog" is Jewish accusations and Christian apologies. It's all one-sided.
Isaiah 7:14 in the Septuagint Greek says the Messiah will be born to a virgin. The post-temple rabbis replaced that with a Hebrew word for "young woman."
That book, The Gospel of the Kingdom by Philip Mauro is very good.
Typical non-Christian SDA arguments based on flawed misinterprations.
1. You misinterpreted Daniel 7:25
You cite Daniel 7:25, which speaks of a power that “will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws.”
You Adventists often link this to the papacy, claiming it changed the Sabbath to Sunday. But this is a leap that doesn’t hold up under scrutiny.
Context of Daniel 7: The chapter describes four beasts, culminating in a “little horn” with blasphemous ambitions. Most Catholic and mainstream biblical scholars identify this horn as a symbol of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, a Seleucid king who persecuted Jews, desecrated the Temple, and altered Jewish festivals and laws (e.g., banning Sabbath observance, 1 Maccabees 1:41-49). The “set times” likely refer to Jewish liturgical feasts, not the weekly Sabbath specifically. Even if you apply it to a future power, there’s no explicit mention of the Sabbath in Daniel 7:25—your interpretation is an assumption, not a deduction.
You imply the Catholic Church unilaterally changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Historically, this is nonsense. Early Christians, including those taught by the apostles, gathered on Sunday, the “Lord’s Day,” to celebrate Christ’s resurrection (Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Revelation 1:10). Writings like the Didache (c. 70-100 AD) and Justin Martyr’s First Apology (c. 155 AD) confirm Sunday worship as standard, long before any centralized papal authority. The Church didn’t “change” the Sabbath; it recognized Sunday as the day of the New Covenant, rooted in Christ’s victory over death.
Linking Daniel 7:25 to a Catholic Sabbath-to-Sunday switch requires ignoring the text’s historical and apocalyptic context. You’re forcing a 19th-century Adventist lens onto a 6th-century BC prophecy. Where’s the biblical proof that “set times” refers exclusively to the Sabbath? You’re projecting, not proving.
If the Sabbath is so central, why does the New Testament never command Christians to keep it? Jesus observed the Sabbath as a Jew under the Old Covenant (Luke 4:16), but His actions often challenged Pharisaic legalism about it (Mark 2:23-28). The apostles never mandated Saturday worship for Gentile converts (Acts 15:19-20). Instead, Colossians 2:16-17 calls Sabbaths, new moons, and festivals “shadows” of Christ, the substance. Romans 14:5-6 allows freedom in choosing worship days. Your insistence on the Sabbath as the eternal standard ignores the New Covenant’s clear shift.
The Church sees Sunday as the “eighth day,” symbolizing the new creation in Christ’s resurrection. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 2174-2176) explains Sunday as fulfilling the Sabbath’s spiritual purpose—rest and worship—while celebrating the Paschal mystery. This isn’t a “counterfeit” change; it’s a theological recognition of Christ’s transformative work, guided by the Church’s God-given authority (Matthew 16:18-19, 18:18).
You lean on Genesis 2:1-2 (God resting on the seventh day) and Mark 2:27 (“The Sabbath was made for man”) to argue the Sabbath’s universal, eternal mandate. Let’s examine these closely.
Genesis 2:1-2: God’s rest after creation sets a pattern, but where’s the command for humanity to observe it weekly before the Mosaic Law? The Sabbath as a formal observance appears in Exodus 16:23-29, given to Israel, not all nations. Your claim that it was “made for man” universally is an assumption, not explicit in the text. Catholics see creation’s rhythm fulfilled in Christ, our rest (Hebrews 4:9-11), not a rigid day.
Mark 2:27: Jesus’ statement that “the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath” emphasizes its purpose—human well-being, not legalistic bondage. He’s correcting Pharisaic rigidity, not mandating eternal Saturday worship. The next verse, Mark 2:28, declares Jesus as “Lord of the Sabbath,” showing His authority over it. If Jesus fulfills the Law (Matthew 5:17),
why bind Christians to a shadow when we have the substance?
You call the shift to Sunday a prophesied “counterfeit” by the papacy. This is Adventist polemic, not biblical truth, and it’s rooted in historical ignorance.
Sunday worship emerged in the apostolic era, not as a 4th-century papal decree. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110 AD) wrote of Christians observing the Lord’s Day, not the Sabbath, as a sign of the New Covenant. The Council of Nicaea (325 AD) didn’t establish Sunday worship; it standardized Easter’s date. Your narrative of a papal plot is a 19th-century invention, popularized by Ellen G. White, not grounded in primary sources.
Your “counterfeit” hinges on Daniel 7:25, but as shown, it doesn’t mention the Sabbath. Revelation 13’s “mark of the beast,” another Adventist favorite, is about loyalty to anti-God systems, not Sunday worship. Show me one verse explicitly tying Sunday to a satanic plot. You’re building doctrine on speculation, not Scripture.
Your insistence on the literal 24-hour Sabbath smells of the legalism Jesus condemned (Mark 7:6-13). By making Saturday the litmus test of faithfulness, you risk elevating a ritual over faith in Christ, who alone saves (Ephesians 2:8-9). The early Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, shifted to Sunday without divine rebuke (Acts 15). Are you wiser than the apostles?
John 3:16, Romans 10:9, and countless verses tie salvation to faith in Christ, not a day. Hebrews 4:9-11 says our ultimate rest is in Christ, not a calendar. If you’re betting eternity on Saturday, you’re misplacing your trust.
The New Testament’s silence on mandating Saturday for Christians is deafening—Colossians 2:16-17, Romans 14:5-6, and Acts 15:28-29 make that clear.
You warn of “risk” in tampering with God’s holy things. The real risk is yours—clinging to a legalistic shadow while ignoring Christ’s fulfillment of the Law. If you’re so sure of your position, produce a single New Testament command for Christians to keep the seventh-day Sabbath. You won’t, because it doesn’t exist. Your doctrine rests on Ellen G. White’s visions and Adventist tradition, not God’s Word.
——>Bipolar, Vespa, your Seventh day Adventist claim that Seventh-day Adventists alone worship on God’s designated day—because it’s the Sabbath Jesus kept and supposedly the eternal heavenly standard—doesn’t hold water biblically or historically
Your own church contradicts you, again.
“The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence their appellation, “Seventh-day Adventists”. Their cardinal principle consists in setting apart Saturday for the exclusive worship of God, in conformity with the positive command of God Himself, repeatedly reiterated in the sacred books of the Old and New Testaments, literally obeyed by the children of Israel for thousands of years to this day and endorsed by the teaching and practice of the Son of God whilst on earth.”
https://www.romeschallenge.com/downloads/RomesChallenge.pdf
“Listen, the Catholic Church didn’t ‘mess with’ the Ten Commandments or sneakily rearrange them to dodge accountability. The commandments come straight from Exodus 20:2–17 and Deuteronomy 5:6–21, and we’ve been faithful to them for 2,000 years. The numbering difference you’re hung up on is just that—a difference in how we organize the same biblical text. Catholics, following St. Augustine’s tradition, combine ‘no other gods’ and ‘no graven images’ into the first commandment because they’re both about worshiping God alone. To keep ten, we split the coveting prohibition—‘don’t covet your neighbor’s wife’ and ‘don’t covet his goods’—into the ninth and tenth, since lusting after a person and craving material stuff are distinct sins.
Non-LUTHERAN western groups following some Jewish traditions and Reformation-era preferences, split the first two and combine coveting into one. Neither side changed the words of Scripture; we just count differently.
Your claim about ‘messing with’ the idol commandment is especially off-base. The Catholic Church explicitly condemns idolatry in the first commandment (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2112–2114). We don’t worship statues or icons—get that straight. We venerate them as reminders of God and the saints, just like you might keep a photo of your family without bowing to it. This isn’t some Catholic conspiracy; it’s theology grounded in the Incarnation, affirmed by the Second Council of Nicaea in 787. The idea that we hid the idol prohibition to justify ‘idolatry’ is a Reformation-era smear that doesn’t hold up. Check the Catechism or, frankly, the Bible itself—Exodus 20:4–6 is right there in our teaching.
if you’re implying we manipulated God’s law, flip the script: why do YOU and your group of non Lutherans combine coveting a wife and goods into one commandment? Is that ‘messing with’ Scripture to downplay the unique harm of lust? Of course not—it’s just a different tradition. Both lists cover the same ground. Accusing Catholics of tampering is lazy polemics, not truth.
——>Vespa, your Seventh Day Adventist non Christian cult was founded by a false prophetess, Ellen G White who had numerous failed prophecies. This makes her and the Adventist cult as Luciferan
Billy Crone says there’s no bigger cult than the Catholic Church.
Your Adventist accusation is a tired mix of half-truths, anti-Catholic prejudice, and prophetic cherry-picking that collapses under scrutiny. You claim Catholics manipulated the Ten Commandments to dodge the second commandment against idols and split the tenth to cover it up, all while labeling the Church the “great whore of Babylon” in some grand prophetic scheme. Let’s rip this apart with facts, Scripture, and reason:
1. 10 commandments numbering
You assert Catholics “split the last one into two” and “messed with” the idol commandment to hide their alleged idol worship. This is a distortion rooted in ignorance of biblical and historical context.
Numbering Differences: The Bible doesn’t number the Ten Commandments explicitly. Different traditions divide the Exodus 20:1-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21 texts differently. Catholics, following the ancient tradition of Augustine (and early Jewish practices), combine the prohibitions against false gods and idols (Exodus 20:3-6) into one commandment, emphasizing monotheism and proper worship. The coveting prohibitions (Exodus 20:17) are split into two (against coveting a neighbor’s wife and goods), highlighting distinct sins of lust and greed. Protestants and Adventists, following the Origen tradition, separate false gods (Exodus 20:3) and idols (20:4-6) into two, combining coveting into one. Both yield ten commandments; neither alters the text.
Your claim that Catholics “took out” the second commandment (on idols) is flat-out false. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 2083-2141) lists all commandments, including the prohibition against idolatry (CCC 2110-2114). The full text of Exodus 20:4-6 appears in Catholic Bibles (e.g., Douay-Rheims, NABRE). We didn’t erase anything; we just organize the list differently. Accusing us of “messing with” God’s law is slanderous and dishonest.
So, the Adventist position is “lie about Christianity and don’t reveal that Adventism considers Jesus as the angel Michael and that Satan takes on the sins of the world”
Your Adventist accusation is a tired mix of half-truths, anti-Catholic prejudice, and prophetic cherry-picking that collapses under scrutiny. You claim Catholics manipulated the Ten Commandments to dodge the second commandment against idols and split the tenth to cover it up, all while labeling the Church the “great whore of Babylon” in some grand prophetic scheme. Let’s rip this apart with facts, Scripture, and reason:
You call the Catholic Church the “great whore of Babylon,” a “counterfeit system” prophesied with “dates, timelines, and clear descriptions.” This is recycled Adventist polemic, rooted in Ellen G. White’s visions, not Scripture. Let’s expose its flaws.
Revelation 17 and Babylon: The “whore of Babylon” in Revelation 17:1-18 is a symbolic figure, often interpreted as apostate Jerusalem, pagan Rome, or a broader anti-God system, not the Catholic Church. The text describes a city on seven hills (17:9), drunk with the blood of saints (17:6). Historically, this fits Nero’s Rome, which persecuted Christians, or Jerusalem, which rejected Christ and faced judgment (Matthew 23:37-38). Linking it to the papacy requires wild leaps—where are the “dates and timelines” in Revelation 17? You’re likely pulling from Daniel 7:25 or White’s Great Controversy, but as shown in prior responses, Daniel’s “little horn” is more clearly Antiochus IV, not the papacy.
The Catholic Church, founded by Christ (Matthew 16:18-19), preserved the Bible, defined the Trinity, and spread the Gospel for 2,000 years. Calling it a “counterfeit” ignores its apostolic roots and the witness of saints, martyrs, and councils. Adventism, born in the 1840s from the Millerite flop, leans on White’s unverified prophecies. Who’s the real newcomer here?
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