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To: Paal Gulli
Crosswind landings at certain airports are absolutely routine. The weather in Toronto hasn't changed since the airport was built.

Do not confuse captain with Pilot In Command (PIC). The PIC is the one who, as I wrote, is the "sole manipulator of the controls".

The PIC changes throughout the flight and communicating that is more than a courtesy. You'll hear it on the cockpit tapes:

"You have command of the aircraft." ~"I have command of the aircraft."
"I have command of the aircraft." ~"You have command of the aircraft."

The FAA is not going to "jerk his ticket" because the FAR is very specific that the PIC is responsible. She was signed off on her Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certification by the FAA; not the airline and not by the captain.

This was not a training flight. She had the certifications and was the PIC. She wasn't showing any signs of being drunk or incapacitated. There is no room for fighting over controls like in cartoons and movies. There is no room for doubting or second-guessing.

34 posted on 03/22/2025 11:12:03 AM PDT by T.B. Yoits
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To: T.B. Yoits

I am not an expert, but shouldn’t it have been obvious to both of them that the rate of descent was too high, that it isn’t safe to land descending at 1,100 feet per minute? The snow and cross winds might make the landing more difficult, but they wouldn’t mostly cause the rate of descent, which is what broke the landing gear.

It isn’t fighting for controls, but the pilot can take control. He could also have taken control for the landing in difficult conditions before there were any problems.


35 posted on 03/22/2025 11:41:29 AM PDT by xxqqzz
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To: T.B. Yoits
Do not confuse captain with Pilot In Command (PIC). The PIC is the one who, as I wrote, is the "sole manipulator of the controls".

The PIC changes throughout the flight...

You are wrong about this. The Pilot in Command is the captain, it does not change throughout the flight. The pilot flying changes obviously, but the captain is the PIC, the first officer is the SIC (second in command). The captain is ultimately responsible for the safe conduct of the flight, that's why he'll be held responsible by the NTSB and FAA also. I'm a captain at a major airline so I'm familiar with the rules.

38 posted on 03/22/2025 1:51:28 PM PDT by GaryCrow
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