What It Takes to Fly the F-16: Challenges for Ukraine

cfr.org ^ | March 5, 2024 | Kristen D. Thompson

[ransomnote]

I don't normally post anything from the Council on Foreign Relations, but this is not their agenda. Instead it is an expert assessment I would have expected them to conceal rather than allow it to be published. I agree with Alexander Mercouris' assessment that the real purpose of F-16's, particularly now that the majority of the Ukrainian electric grid is gone and they're losing more rapidly now, is to provoke WWIII with Putin. Putin said he would consider F-16's nuclear threats, and the Ukrainians have floated plans to provoke another of Putin's red lines - i.e., trying to base the F-16's in ROmainia and flying into Ukraine to attack Russians. The Ukrainians were pretending the planes would leave Romainia and land/refuel/arm in one of their air bases, which is just not feasible, but would let them start that war they want so badly.

[kiryandil]

I'm old enough to remember being told in late August 2023 that the Ukrainians have "just been given more F-16s than they had MiG-29s and Su-27s".

I also remember being told for almost a year that they would be arriving next Tuesday, if only I believed the poster about it today.

I nicknamed the guy "Wimpy".

[Right_Wing_Madman]

The Ukrainians were pretending the planes would leave Romainia and land/refuel/arm in one of their air bases, which is just not feasible

Neocons can't read a map. Ukraine is a large country. The F-16 can't reach Donbass from Rumania, and the front is out of range from Kiev!

[Right Brother]

****Ukraine is a large country.****

Not according to Kamala.

[ransomnote]

In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled What It Takes to Fly the F-16: Challenges for Ukraine, Right_Wing_Madman wrote:

The Ukrainians were pretending the planes would leave Romainia and land/refuel/arm in one of their air bases, which is just not feasible

Neocons can't read a map. Ukraine is a large country. The F-16 can't reach Donbass from Rumania, and the front is out of range from Kiev!

I went to an old thread (at the bottom of this post) and pulled some of my notes on the video to put here re the F-16's. You are of course correct about the distance  from Ukraine and the front.

I believe Mercouris (from my notes on the video) is saying they are pretending they will refuel/re arm in Ukraine, but they really are trying to cross Putin's red line regarding basing those planes in Romania. That plan was abandoned after the obvious problems with it became common points of discussion. I thought Mercouris did a good job stressing the distance limitations for the F-16 and the lack of sufficient air defense means the donated F-16's would have to be based near the front to be able to strike, but that location would be vulnerable to Russia's bombs. What a farce.

~~BELOW THIS LINE - MY NOTES ON THE VIDEO (linked at the end)~~

Mercouris asks, "What about the project to park F-16's outside the Ukraine? Because they (approx 60 of them)would be vulnerable to destruction in the Urkaine, they will be moved to the rear. Most of them  are to be parked in Romainia. Supposedly they they go into battle, they will take off from 'secure' air bases in Romainia and fly to Ukrainian air bases being attacked by Russia, and defended with NASAMS and PATRIOTS. Once they reach the Ukrainian air bases, the F-16's will be re-equipped (air to air missiles, other kinds of weapons) and refueled there and then they will be sent into battle against the Russians. Mercouris notes that even he, with such little knowledge of air to air combat, knows how problematic, indeed how ridiculous, this plan is. Mercouris believes that despite denials, the F-16's are to be operated from the Romanian airbases,  without the transit to Ukrainian air bases supposedly under fire, that there will be the need for air defense systems in the Ukraine, but the main air base from which the F-16's will operate will be the one in Romainia.

[ransomnote: I suspect the pilots taking off from Romainia will be NATO pilots. Just a guess. Also, Mercouris and others have made the point that the F-16's would require the construction of air strips which must be kept pristine to avoid debris being sucked into the aircrafts' intake, parts and trained personel for repairs not feasible for the Ukraine; it was always a ruse.]

[ransomnote: In a prior post on FR I reviewed descriptions of the planes that Russia flies (incl SU-27) vs the aircraft the Ukraine flies or has been given (most modern are F-16's) and there is a significant mismatch. 

Also, although the Ukraine claims all its pilots are former experienced fighter pilots, others say some are new to flying, and the group is struggling with English  in regards to flying F-16's, and there's not enough spaces in American training programs for many of the pilots this year.]

According to Mercouris, the Russians have said that if they find F-16 fighter jets taking off from Romanian bases and engaging them over the skies of the Ukraine, they will strike back and hit those aircraft in those Romainian bases.

Mercouris: "So this is another formula to escalate the war. It's the only way that this can end. Again the West is dancing with an incredibly dangerous situation. It was why, I think, some people in the Pentagon thought it was a bad idea to supply Ukraine with F-16's at all; because they could work it out; they could see what the problems were, and they realized that the only way that the F-16's at all was if they were deployed in precisely this way. " 

• Rus Defeats Ukr Volchansk, Takes Novoaleksandrovka; FT US Losing Faith Zelensky; F16s Romania Based (My NOTES and COMMENTS on the 1 hour 22 minute YOUTUBE video)

  6/12/2024, 12:25:16 PM · by ransomnote · 25 replies

  YOUTUBE ^ | June 11, 2024 | Alexander Mercouris, vanity

[who_would_fardels_bear]

It really doesn’t take all that much skill to fly an F-16 if soon after it taxis onto a runway it is bombed to smithereens.

[Blueway]

Mr. Blueway was stationed at Hill AFB 388th Tactical Fighter Wing as a maintenance officer in 1979 when the F16 was first operational.
The F16 was known as the first fly-by-wire fighter, therefore the pilots had a steep learning curve.
Fortunately, it had an excellent egress system that helped keep pilots alive in those early years.
It seems odd to me that a forty-five year old aircraft is in the news so frequently lately.

[McGruff]

Maybe she should be forced to take a mental competency test.

[kiryandil]

Bed headboard CTE.

[frank ballenger]

Memorable scene of a pilot in an unfamiliar aircraft in Independence Day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK0o-8LWLFM

[alexander_busek]

Putin said he would consider F-16's nuclear threats [...]

Oh, golly! If Putin says he views them as nuclear threats (even though they aren't), then we sure as heck better do as he says and withdraw them!

After all, Putin is the one who started this Special Military Operation war of invasion and conquest more than two years ago, so he has the right to dictate the ground rules.

And if Putin says that the Russians are allowed to use advanced fighters, but the Ukrainians aren't, that's good enough for me!

Regards,

[jz638]

It’s all for show. The Ukrainians will fly a token number of daytime only CAP sorties over Kyiv from NATO airbases with the F-16s. The pilots they have available for the F-16 training (which is a year behind schedule) are far too few in number to do anything meaningful in contested airspace, and that is assuming they’ll have enough pilots making it through training to be capable of flying any sorties at all.

[WeaslesRippedMyFlesh]

The more they crash the more they buy.

Win win for those making money from the effort.

[Rockingham]

The Russians know and play on the American fear of escalation across a nuclear threshold. As the immediate and most likely target of a Russian nuclear strike, Ukraine has no reason to desire or provoke Russian use of nuclear weapons.

In truth, even a limited tactical use of a single nuclear weapon against Ukraine would swiftly result in massive conventional retaliation by the US and NATO and Russia becoming a pariah around the world.

The single greatest threat of F-16s is against Crimea's lines of communication with Russia, especially the bridge across the Kerch strait. The range of an F-16 from the furthest parts of west Ukraine easily includes the Kerch bridge. That is why the Russians recently concentrated their air defense assets there.

[Who is John Galt?]

Maybe she should be forced to take a mental competency test.

It's been said that average Americans communicate at the level of 8-year-olds. But liberalism is the political philosophy of 2-year-olds ("I WANT WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT IT!!!") - given her audience, she may be 'dumbing it down' even further on purpose...

[Pete Dovgan]

To little to late.

They needed about 800 combat aircraft in April of last year. They needed that to control the skies and hunt and kill artillery positions before the offensive.

This is just another example of a poorly run democratic conflict that gets many people killed for nothing. Hopefully Trump can end it.

[JoSixChip]

Where do you morons come from?

[oldtech]

What I read says it takes an American pilot up to 9 months to train in the F-16. Good Grief! I was hoping the war would be over before then!

[ransomnote]

In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled What It Takes to Fly the F-16: Challenges for Ukraine, Rockingham wrote:

The Russians know and play on the American fear of escalation across a nuclear threshold. As the immediate and most likely target of a Russian nuclear strike, Ukraine has no reason to desire or provoke Russian use of nuclear weapons.

In truth, even a limited tactical use of a single nuclear weapon against Ukraine would swiftly result in massive conventional retaliation by the US and NATO and Russia becoming a pariah around the world.

The single greatest threat of F-16s is against Crimea's lines of communication with Russia, especially the bridge across the Kerch strait. The range of an F-16 from the furthest parts of west Ukraine easily includes the Kerch bridge. That is why the Russians recently concentrated their air defense assets there.

NATO members don't want their own countries exposed to nukes so they fight their war in the Ukraine, trying to goad the Russians into firing on the Ukraine. NATO doesn't care about the Ukrainians - that's why they've prolonged the war long after any hope of winning was proven futile.

History shows bridges of strategic use have been blown up without F-16's.

The F-16's are a vehicle NATO hopes to use to get WWIII started. It's not that the US would be a first strike target. It's that once they provoke Russia to fire on the Ukraine, then the US and other nations will claim they are justified in firing on Russia.

[rlmorel]

hahahahahahahaha