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To: MeanWestTexan
I don’t care about any law but the Law.

You mean the Law of Moses?

I don't recall anything in the Pentateuch that says a Jew is someone born of a Jewish mother. (In fact, they were called Israelites rather than Jews back then.)

The Old Testament is fairly patriarchal, whereas the rule you cite is matriarchal. I suspect it originated long after the Mosaic law.

Where does this rule come from? The Talmud? Some other Jewish tradition? When does this rule first appear in writing? The medieval period? Later still?

76 posted on 04/22/2024 9:00:20 PM PDT by Angelino97
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To: Angelino97; MeanWestTexan

“You mean the Law of Moses? I don’t recall anything in the Pentateuch that says a Jew is someone born of a Jewish mother.”

Then apparently you missed Deuteronomy. Or the entire Book of Ezra and the problem with Samaritans. And goodly parts Genesis.

If you recall, the Book of Ezra tells the story of the Jews who returned from Babylonia to finish rebuilding the Holy Temple in Jerusalem. Upon their arrival they found that many of the Jews who inhabited the land had taken non-Jewish wives.

Ezra was heartbroken, tearing his garments in mourning and prayer to God. A large crowd gathered, and joined with Ezra as he prayed and wept. Then:

“And Shechaniah, the son of Jehiel, of the sons of Elam, raised his voice and said to Ezra, “We have betrayed our God, and we have taken in foreign wives of the peoples of the land, but there is still hope for Israel concerning this.”

“Now then, let us make a covenant with our God to expel all these women and those who have been born to them, in accordance with the bidding of the Lord and of all who are concerned over the commandment of our God, and let the Torah be obeyed.” (Ezra 10:2-3.)

So what part of the Torah was being referred to?

Deuteronomy 7:4:

“You shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughter to his son, and you shall not take his daughter for your son. For he will turn away your son from following Me, and they will worship the gods of others, and the wrath of God will be kindled against you, and He will quickly destroy you.”

You can carefully parse this and figure out that, while both are bad, sons marrying foreign daughters is really bad and the descendants are not Jewish. (”Son” is limited to Jewish descendants in the Bible.) Plenty of explanations for you, one Bing search away.

BTW: the descendants of the expelled women (and the Jewish men who didn’t leave them) are the Samaritans, notably still not Jewish hundreds of years later, in the times of Jesus.

Or if you want to go older:

Abraham fathered children with three wives or concubines: Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah. Sarah affirmatively chose God, so her descendants were Jewish. Hagar (Ishmael) and Keturah’s descendants were not. In fact, in Genesis 21:13, God refers to Hagar’s son Ismael as “the son of the maidservant” rather than “your [Avraham’s] son” (while also referring to Hagar’s son as Abraham’s seed);

I don’t think anyway argues that the Ishmaelites (aka Arabs) are Jewish.

Isaac had one wife Rebecca and two sons, Jacob and Esau. Jacob’s wives converted (or were already Jewish; not clear) and their descendants became Jewish. Esau’s descendants, in contrast, were non-Jewish: this was a result of his wives being Hittite and Ishmaelite.

Moses married Zipporah, a Midianite woman. They had two sons, Gershom and Eliezer, both born before the Exodus. The sons of Moses—with an Israelite father and Midianite mother—are absent from the genealogies of Levites, which do include the sons of Moses’ brother Aaron (whose wife was Israelite).

Now in the opposite direction — non-Jewish father and Jewish mother — several notable persons were accepted as Jewish, despite having a non-Jewish father:

Hiram the craftsman was Jewish, and, in fact, employed to build Solomon’s Temple despite having a Phoenician father (and Israelite mother).

Amasa was entrusted with control of an Israelite army, despite having a non-Israelite father (and Israelite mother).

And so on. All of these follow the same pattern.

Now, there are plenty of women converts: Sarah, Ruth, etc whose descendants are Jewish (notably King David in Ruth’s case).

In sum, it’s plain in the text of Deuteronomy, crystal clear in Ezra, and pretty darn obvious everywhere else.


77 posted on 04/23/2024 7:52:52 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Orange is the new brown)
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