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To: whitney69
"If the enemy was socialism,"

It was.

"and the democrats were overwhelmed with it,"

They officially captured the party in 1896, going from the centrist Grover Cleveland in favor of the radical Socialist William Jennings Bryan. In the almost 128 years since, only on one occasion, in 1924, was a non-leftist nominated for President: John W. Davis (though Davis, as Solicitor-General, had served a left-wing regime, that being the Wilson Administration).

"and it appears you feel he was egotistical"

TR was the epitome of ego. Almost like a madman. What kind of a person gets shot - as he did - and insists on delivering a political speech until he finishes, and then decides to have it treated ? This is not someone playing with a full deck.

"and could have joined them with their like attitude, then why did he go to another party that wasn’t even named yet and why could he take a third party to victory with no other assistance than his deeds?"

Pure arrogance and ego. He thought "the people" (at least some of them) would follow him to the gates of hell.

"This wasn’t a party issue for him, it was the people."

It wasn't anything other than arrogance and ego. He couldn't get the GOP nomination over President Taft, so he was going to go the third party route, nation be damned. He didn't care about the people. TR cared about TR.

"That’s what got Reagan in and that’s what got Trump in."

Nope, that's not the same. Neither burned the GOP to the ground as TR did in 1912. Reagan could've gone full scorched earth in 1976 after narrowly losing to President Ford. He didn't. He dutifully endorsed Ford and bided his time for 1980. The complete opposite of what TR did. Trump never had to do that, the party base was so hungry for his leadership in 2016, he easily prevailed. Your comparisons above are completely inaccurate. TR/Reagan/Trump were different individuals with different agendas.

"The only difference between Roosevelt and them is that Reagan and Trump did it without a political reputation. When Roosevelt left the GOP he did the same thing. They ran for the people, not for the party."

Without political reputation ? What ? Reagan and Trump both ran for party and people. TR ran for sheer ego. He had already served as President for two terms. His attempting to seek a third (or fourth) term was in contradiction to the Founding Fathers. They'd have rightly found him to be an egotistical, arrogant, warmongering menace. If TR had been around in place of Washington, he'd have easily accepted the title of King for the remainder of his life. He was an unapologetic imperialist.

"A lot of that is because he had previously fixed a lot of it. During his seven years on office, Roosevelt embraced the era of reform that was dawning in the United States. He took on the corporate trusts, challenging them in the courts and breaking up many monopolies that held sway over the U.S. economy, including the banking trusts, the oil trusts, the railroad trusts, even the sugar trusts that were under control of those socialists you mentioned."

"Fixing" is a relative term. What's fixed for one person may be destroyed for another. Drastically increasing the power of the federal government over the private sector was certainly no virtue.

"Roosevelt also helped transform the United States in to a major naval power, ushering in what became known as the American Century."

Coming from someone who considered warmongering a high moral virtue, there is a reason for that. He would've personally charged the Americans into WW1 had he been in office from 1913-1917. That "American Century" you describe has resulted in countless millions of needless deaths in endless warfare. That is nothing to be proud of.

"These accomplishments earned Roosevelt a spot on Mount Rushmore representing the development of the United States."

Ask the Lakota Sioux how they feel about having four politicians carved into a mountain on their sacred land.

"For a lot of things not broken, they sure got invented so they wouldn’t be. He was a man of the people and not the parties."

Endless warfare is something that should never have been invented in the 20th century. As for being a man not of the parties, it's possible he might never have progressed beyond being Governor of New York had he not been picked as McKinley's second VP. He certainly wouldn't have become President when he did without McKinley's having been assassinated. So, again, it was most certainly "the party" (GOP) that was responsible for promoting him, not "the people."

"And the voters recognized that and chose him over the parties like Reagan or Trump. The people voted for them, not for the regular party platforms."

Roosevelt never faced the people nationally until 1904 after he'd been President for over 3 years. So he was the incumbent officeholder. The people chose Reagan and Trump in 1980 and 2016 AS the Republican nominees.

52 posted on 11/16/2023 9:18:32 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (America Owes Anita Bryant An Enormous Apology)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

“He thought “the people” (at least some of them) would follow him to the gates of hell.”

Enough of him to get him elected were willing. Not only by the party he walked away from but the party not of the people at the time, just like now. This fixation of party in the country has formed a fence between information and knowledge, concern and compassion, and has brought the halting of discussion on how to best handle the people’s problems and not trying to get a paycheck getting by.

“He couldn’t get the GOP nomination over President Taft, so he was going to go the third party route, nation be damned. He didn’t care about the people. TR cared about TR.”

In the 1908 presidential election, Roosevelt helped ensure that he would be succeeded by Secretary of War Taft. Although Taft entered office determined to advance Roosevelt’s Square Deal domestic agenda, he stumbled badly during the Payne–Aldrich Tariff Act debate and the Pinchot–Ballinger controversy. The political fallout of these events divided the Republican Party and alienated Roosevelt from his former friend.

Progressive Republican leader Robert M. La Follette had already announced a challenge to Taft for the 1912 Republican nomination, but many of his supporters shifted to Roosevelt after the former president decided to seek a third presidential term, which was permissible under the Constitution prior to the ratification of the Twenty-second Amendment. At the 1912 Republican National Convention, Taft narrowly defeated Roosevelt for the party’s presidential nomination. You’ll notice the “party’s nomination.” Just like what happened to Trump, lack of support. And that continues today. In Reagan’s case, he made a deal not to put a muzzle on the liberals in congress and gave them some leeway in spending in the house. But they lied to him and went ahead with their agenda and the republicans sat on the lips and let Reagan take the hit for a bad economy. And that keeps repeating today.

Now, as for ego, there is no way you can tell me T Roosevelt, who represented the people with his square deal policies, was anywhere near as arrogant as Clinton and especially Obama. They both literally challenged the GOP through their control of party affiliation. Every major discussion was tossed not based upon the facts of the need, but the determination of the party platform. That has lead to huge inflation, illegal alien entries, threats from other nations that before wee scared to death of us, and the growth of hundreds of terrorist organizations that have infiltrated us, some right out in the open like the Reedley incident. Sound like they were trying to be concerned with the people? That’s what got people like Roosevelt, Reagan, and Trump elected. The need was more important than the platform.

“What kind of a person gets shot - as he did - and insists on delivering a political speech until he finishes, and then decides to have it treated? This is not someone playing with a full deck.”

I know a number of them. They belong to the US military and had determined for themselves they are going to complete the mission that in their case was protecting people. And the books are full of them many receiving the Congressional. This was the military T Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, and Donald Trump supported. Crazy? Need more of them.

wy69


53 posted on 11/17/2023 1:47:11 AM PST by whitney69 (yption tunnels)
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