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To: MtnClimber
So can anyone give a single example of a Muslim country treating members of minority religious communities in a manner that we would consider appropriate?

I am sure there were individuals, and Muhammad when a minority in Mecca ("There is no compulsion in religion" Quran 2:256) but once a in power in Medina, the Quran exhorts (with little interpretive context, unlike the Bible): O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. Sura 5:51 (Yusuf Ali)

They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. Sura 4:89 (Shakir)

Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 2:190-192 (Pickthal)

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. 2:193 (Pickthal)

Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). 8:38 (Yusuf Ali)

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do. 8:39 (Pickthal)

Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan. 4:76 (Yusuf Ali)

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter... 5:33 (Yusuf Ali)

And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. 9:3-5 (Yusuf Ali)

But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand. '

But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained. 9:11,12 (Yusuf Ali)

O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque...Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 9:28,29 (Yusuf Ali)

O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. 9:73 (Pickthal)

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him). 9:123 (Pickthal)

Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain. 47:4 (Pickthal)

28 posted on 11/07/2023 6:02:45 AM PST by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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To: daniel1212
The Pact of Umar

The Pact (Covenant) of Umar (c. 717 A.D.) is a fundamental document in prescribing the treatment of conquered people, or "dhimmi", by Muslims. According to Islamic tradition, the Pact is a treaty formulated for the treatment of the "ahl al-kitab", ("People of the Book") - Jews and Christians - living on the lands newly conquered and colonized by Muslims. Due to the rapid growth of Islamic domination during 7th century, Muslims leaders were required to work out a way of dealing with Non-Muslims, who remained in the majority in many areas for centuries. The solution was to develop the notion of the dhimma, people who were allowed to basically keep their religion, but but were kept under submission by repressive rules. Violation of the terms of the pact by Dhimmi rendered them "liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition."

Sometimes the Pact was repromulgated as a reminder to forgetful dhimmi, and in so doing Mamluk sultans during the latter Middle Ages specified that dhimmi could not be in service to the State.

The author of the Pact, which exists in several somewhat varied textual forms, is generally understood by many to be the Muslim caliph Umar ibn AbdulAziz (682 - 720), or Umar II, though it has been attributed to the first Caliph, Umar ibn-al-Khattab (586 - 590). Some modern scholars believe it is the product of later jurists who attributed it to the caliph Umar in order to lend greater authority to their own opinions, and it is assumed that it's present form dates to around the ninth century (Sources: David J. Jonsson, “The Clash of Ideologies”, pp. 526-29. Mark R. Cohen, “Under Crescent and Cross”, pp. 72,73, 163-5. Overview from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar_II)

Regardless of its author, the Pact of Umar served as one model for Muslims on how to govern conquered non-Muslims, a roles it continues to the present day. Inspiration for this treatment may have come from non-Islamic sources, as well as the overall moderate first Caliph, Umar ibn-al-Khattab (author of the less restrictive "Umari Treaty" for dhimmi in Jerusalem). The 11th century, A.D. book, "Rules and Regulations Governing the People of the Book", by Muslim theologian “ Ibn Hazm (994-1064), states,

These are the Rules and Regulations that were imposed by ‘Umar ibn-al-Khattab' [634–44] on the Christians of Syria, after conquering their land. The purpose of these rules was to make them submissive and contemptible. Christians were in no way to exhibit any sign of their unbelief, or anything forbidden in Islam; since Allah, the supremely Glorified and Honored, had said:

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.” Qur'an 8:39 (Pickthall’s Translation) (Source: Jacob Thomas, The Onerous Rules & Regulations Imposed on the People of the Book”, answering-islam.org)

See here on contradictions between the teaching of the Bible and the Qu'ran regarding this and other doctrines.

Pact of Umar

We heard from Abd al-Rahman ibn Ghanam [died 697 A.D.] as follows: When Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, accorded a peace to the Christians of Syria, we wrote to him as follows:

In the name of Allah, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of Allah Umar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of such-and-such a city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (aman) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations toward you:

(When I brought the letter to Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, he added, "We shall not strike a Muslim.")

(from Al-Turtushi, Siraj al-Muluk, pp. 229-230)

30 posted on 11/07/2023 6:08:16 AM PST by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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