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To: one guy in new jersey
An archival search of “natural Born” with John Adams as author:

Your point, if you have one?

Do you believe that something John Adams wrote either could or did strike down the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, or any federal court opinion?

167 posted on 10/23/2023 2:22:15 PM PDT by woodpusher
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To: woodpusher

It factors into so-called Original Meaning jurisprudence.

The first and most important aspect of any treatment the Supreme Court of the United States would give in terms of a majority opinion, were it presented with an on-point case or controversy (either on appeal or as part of its original jurisdiction) involving the question of who may or may not run for, assume, or hold the office of President of the United States, would be to render a cogent and satisfactory definition of the term natural born Citizen of the United States.

Documented usage (that it was used, how it was used, etc.) of that term in the founding era predating its inclusion in 1787 in the proposed Constitution for the United States of America would form an important building block of a sound SCOTUS analysis based on Original Meaning jurisprudence.

John Adams used it in 1783 (not 1782, sorry, my mistake) in a draft form of the Treaty of Paris, and in 1785 as documented in This Guy’s prior comment.

Obviously, John Jay famously used that term in a letter to the presiding member of the Constitutional Convention (Washington) scant weeks before Washington and his colleagues at the Convention voted to include it in the new document’s Presidential Eligibility clause.

All of these instances of usage, and as many others of equal or greater relevance to a proper and comprehensive Original Meaning analysis that exist and can be cited and brought to the attention of SCOTUS, would need to be considered and balanced by the author of the majority opinion, or else the the definition they would publish by means of the majority opinion would suffer (and rightly so) from accusations of illegitimacy, bias, and partisanship.

Now, the only cogent definition of which This Guy is aware that makes sense based on all available valid inputs to this analysis is: Born in the united States (and in an actual State, mind you, not a territory) to parents who, at the time of the birth in question, were full-fledged U.S. citizens (whether U.S NBCs themselves, or U.S. citizens via naturalization, either way, it does not matter).

Your mileage may vary.

But timely usage of the exact term at issue for most of the decade of the 1780s by the most prominent members of the founding generation, and/or the highest or most important officers of the pre-Constitutiinal U.S. Government, seems to suggest that the term in question was not some gauzy, thinly-understood, proto-colonial gobbledygook, but instead a solid, meaningful term, even if relatively new, and therefore capable of fixing and announcing an easily understood and unavoidable Constitutiibal distinction between the POTUS-eligible and the POTUS-ineligible.

By the way, and for what it’s worth, the term “naturel” in French (used by Vattel in his now-famous Section 212 expounding on “Naturels” and “Indigines”) was translated in 1781 in a different context by the Secretary of the Continental Congress as “Natural Born”:

__________

From:

https://cdrkerchner.wordpress.com/2015/04/17/absolute-proof-the-founders-knew-and-accepted-vattels-french-naturels-to-mean-natural-born-before-constitution-was-written/

The below French and its translation to English was found in the Library of Congress Website. If you look at [page 794] Article III in the body of the 1781 source text below, you will see in French,

“Les consuls et vice consuls respectifs ne pourront être pris que parmi les sujets naturels de la puissance qui les nommera. Tous seront appointés par leur souverain respectif, et ils ne pourront en conséquence faire aucun trafic ou commerce quelconque ni pour leur propre compte, ni pour le compte d’autrui.”

Going down further to the end you will find the translation to English [by the Secretary of the Continental Congress]. See [page 804, Article XVIII ,] paragraph number 3 in the 1781 English translation,

The respective Consuls and Vice Consuls shall only be taken from among the natural born subjects of the power nominating them. They shall all be appointed by their respective Sovereign, and in Consequence of such appointment they shall not exercise any traffic or commerce whatsoever either on their own account, or on account of any other

Translation by Charles Thomson secretary of the Continental Congress


181 posted on 10/23/2023 3:54:20 PM PDT by one guy in new jersey
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