[BroJoeK #280] Young Lincoln said people have a right to chose their government, but questions if there were actually Americans in the disputed territory.
If Lincoln thought there were no Americans in the Rio Grande area of Mexico, who were the people Lincoln talked about on January 12, 1848 when he waxed so eloquently to Congress that,
Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable—a most sacred right—a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of their territory as they inhabit.
Was he just talking to the wind with nobody in mind? Was he talking about Mexican peasants?
Of course, we "know" from your past statements that Lincoln's speech was devoted exclusively to Polk's war against Mexico, and that Lincoln was generalizing on the specific case of people living in the disputed land between the Nueces and Rio Grande rivers. If Lincoln believed no Americans were there, and that Congress had never annexed, or tried to annex, that land, who was he generalizing about?
[BroJoeK #267] I'll refrain from calling your words here a lie, but the fact remains that young Congressman Lincoln's 1848 speech was devoted entirely to the Democrat Pres. Polk's war against Mexico.
[BroJoeK #277] In this particular case, my point remains valid, that Lincoln was generalizing on the specific case of people living in the disputed land between the Nueces and Rio Grande rivers.
The war was ongoing when Abe became Spotty Lincoln. The war was over when Lincoln gave his speech 21 days before the Treaty was signed. What was Lincoln trying to accomplish after the war was over?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War
The U.S. Army, under Major General Winfield Scott, invaded the Mexican heartland and captured the capital, Mexico City, in September 1847.Although Mexico was defeated on the battlefield, negotiating peace was a politically fraught issue. Some Mexican factions refused to consider any recognition of its loss of territory. Although Polk formally relieved his peace envoy, Nicholas Trist, of his post as negotiator, Trist ignored the order and successfully concluded the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. It ended the war, and Mexico recognized the cession of present-day Texas, California, Nevada, and Utah as well as parts of present-day Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, and Wyoming. The U.S. agreed to pay $15 million for the physical damage of the war and assumed $3.25 million of debt already owed by the Mexican government to U.S. citizens. Mexico relinquished its claims on Texas and accepted the Rio Grande as its northern border with the United States, a loss of 55% of its territory.
https://www.history.com/topics/19th-century/mexican-american-war
Finally, on Feb. 2, 1848, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed, establishing the Rio Grande (and not the Nueces River) as the U.S.-Mexican border. Under the treaty, Mexico also recognized the U.S. annexation of Texas, and agreed to sell California and the rest of its territory north of the Rio Grande for $15 million plus the assumption of certain damage claims.The net gain in U.S. territory after the Mexican-American War was roughly 525,000 square miles, an enormous tract of land—nearly as much as the Louisiana Purchase’s 827,000 square miles—that would forever change the geography, culture and economy of the United States.
As Trist had been relieved of his position, he had no authority to speak for or obligate his country.
Abraham Lincoln, Speech to Congress, January 12, 1848:
If I should claim your land, by word of mouth, that certainly would not make it mine; and if I were to claim it by a deed which I had made myself, and with which, you had had nothing to do, the claim would be quite the same, in substance—or rather, in utter nothingness. I next consider the President's statement that Santa Anna in his treaty with Texas, recognised the Rio Grande, as the western boundary of Texas. Besides the position, so often taken that Santa Anna, while a prisoner of war—a captive—could not bind Mexico by a treaty, which I deem conclusive—besides this, I wish to say something in relation to this treaty, so called by the President, with Santa Anna. If any man would like to be amused by a sight of that little thing, which the President calls by that big name, he can have it, by turning to Niles' Register volume 50, page 336.And if any one should suppose that Niles' Register is a curious repository of so mighty a document, as a solemn treaty between nations, I can only say that I learned, to a tolerable degree [of] certainty, by enquiry at the State Department, that the President himself, never saw it any where else.
Lincoln here clearly referred to the "Treaty" of 1936, as shown by the reference to Niles Register volume 50. For reading amusement, the little thing called by the big name TREATY, from the cited Niles' Register.
Niles' National Register; Baltimore, Vol. 50, Iss. 1295, pg. 336 (Jul 16, 1836)
Articles of an agreement entered into between his Excellency David G. Burnet, President of the Republic of Texas, of the one part, and his Excellency General Santa Anna, President-General-in-Chief of the Mexican army, of the other partArticle 1st. General Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna agrees that he will not take up arms, nor will he exercise his influence to cause them to be taken up, against the people of Texas, during the present war of independence.
Article 2nd. All hostilities between the Mexican and Texan troops will cease immediately, both by land and water.
Article 3rd. The Mexican troops will evacuate the territory of Texas, passing to the other side of the Rio Grande Del Norte.
Article 4th. The Mexican army, in its retreat, shall not take the property of any person without his consent and just indemnification, using only such articles as may be necessary for its subsistence, in cases when the owner may not be present, and remitting to the commander of the army of Texas, or to the Commissioners to be appointed for the adjustment of such matters, an account of the value of the property consumed, the place where taken, and the name of the owner, if it can be ascertained.
Article 5th. That all private property, including cattle, horses, negro slaves, or indentured persons, of whatever denomination, that may have been captured by any portion of the Mexican army, or may have taken refuge in the said army, since the commencement of the late invasion, shall be restored to the commander of the Texan army, or to such other persons as may be appointed by the Government of Texas to receive them.
Article 6th. The troops of both armies will refrain from coming into contact with each other; and to this end, the commander of the army of Texas will be careful not to approach within a shorter distance than five leagues.
Article 7th. The Mexican army shall not make any other delay, on its march, than that which is necessary to take up their hospitals, baggage, &c., and to cross the rivers; any delay not necessary to these purposes to be considered an infraction of this agreement.
Article 8th. By an express to be immediately despatched, this agreement shall be sent to General Vincente Filisola, and to General T. J. Rusk, commander of the Texan army, in order that they may be apprized of its stipulations; and to this end, they will exchange engagements to comply with the same.
Article 9th. That all Texan prisoners now in the possession of the Mexican army, or its authorities, be forthwith released, and furnished with free passports to return to their homes; in consideration of which, a corresponding number of Mexican prisoners, rank and file, now in possession of the Government of Texas, shall be immediately released—the remainder of the Mexican prisoners that continue in the possession of the Government of Texas to be treated with due humanity; any extraordinary comforts that may be furnished them to be at the charge of the Government of Mexico.
Article 10th. General Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna will be sent to Vera Cruz as soon as it shall be deemed proper.
The contracting parties sign this instrument for the above mentioned purposes, in duplicate, at the port of Velasco, this 14th day of May, 1836.
DAVID G. BURNET, President.
JAS. COLLINGSWORTH, Secretary of State.
ANTONIO LOPEZ DE SANTA ANNA.
B. HARDIMAN, Secretary of the Treasury.
P. W. GRAYSON, Attorney-General.
Note that Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna was a prisoner of war and had no title.
Id at 337:
[CIRCULAR.]Department of the army and navy.
His excellency the provisional president of the Mexican republic has been pleased to forward to me the following decree:
DECREE.
The provisional president of the Mexican republic to the citizens,
Be it known, that the general congress has decreed as follows: :
ARTICLE 1. The government will appeal to the patriotism of the Mexican people, and will exert all the means in its power to carry on the war in Texas, until the national honor is vindicated, the interests of the republic secured, and the liberty of the president general restored.
2. The successful co-operation of any native citizen or foreigner, in festoring to liberty the said president general, will be esteemed a-distinguished service by the congress, with the intention of rewarding it in an honorable manner.
3. The government will carry into effect the provisions of the first article, without paying any attention to any stipulations made, or to be made, with the enemy, by the captive president, all of which are declared and are to be considered as null and void.
[There are a few other articles respecting the manner of apportioning the raising of new troops ]
ANTONIO MONTOZA, president of the congress.
JOSE R. MALO, secretary.
RAFAEL DE MONTALVO, secretary.
Let this decree be printed, published and circulated.
JOSE JUSTO CORRO, provisional president.
JOSE MARIA TORNEL, secretary of the army and navy. Palace of the national government, Mexico, May 20, 1836.
Note that Jose Justo Corro was the Provisional President of Mexico, having replaced President Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana, and any stipulations made by prisoner of war Santa Ana were declared null and void by the Acting President of Mexico.
- - - - -
[CIRCULAR ]The provisional president of the Mezican republic to the citizens. Be it known, with a view to manifest the just feeling of the nation and the army, excited by the captivity of that eminent friend of his country, Don Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana, the following reguiations are to be observed:
1. In the daily orders of the army, in all garrisons and military bodies, the following words are to be inverted:
“On the 21st of April, 1836, Don Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana, president general of the republic, was made prisoner, fighting to preserve the integrity of the national territory.”
2. During the captivity of his excellency the president of the republic, a band of black crape shall be attached to the colors and standards of the troops of the Mexican army.
3. The national flag shall be lowered half-mast until the president general is restored to liberty.
JOSE JUSTO CORRO, provisional president.
JOSE MARIA TORREL, secretary.
Mexico, palace of the national government, May 20, 1836.