[woodpusher]

"The Confederacy wanted independence. The same thing that their fathers and grandfathers gained from King George."

This is a tame version of what you might see, and the Founders couldn't even be named specifically(as a group) here, which is a bit shameful. We know who you're talking about with the fathers and grandfathers comment.

What is shameful about a state, or group of states, wanting independence?

Abraham Lincoln stated,

Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable—a most sacred right—a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of their territory as they inhabit.

Lincoln expressly stated that the right to shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better is not confined to cases of a whole people, but that any portion of such people may make their own, of so much of their territory as they inhabit. What is shameful about what Lincoln said?

If you know who were the fathers and grandfathers spoken of, what is your necessity to speak in riddles? A great many fathers and grandfathers of Confederates literally were Founders. What is the peculiar significance of your claim to know who they were? It would take the length of a book to name them all.

[Pelham]

I got a chuckle out of his “as if on cue” squawk.

The irony that Lincoln was playing the role of King George to the South’s declaration of independence wasn’t lost on anyone at the time.

Since most families in the South had been there for generations they were literal descendants of Revolutionary War “rebels”. Mine certainly were.

Compare that with the 1848 European socialist revolutionaries who had immigrated to the North and who played a major role in Republican party politics and the Union army. Some were literal associates of Karl Marx. Maybe that will garner another “as if on cue” comment.

[ProgressingAmerica]

"What is shameful about a state, or group of states, wanting independence?"

Do you love the Founding Fathers or not? Let's be direct here.

Do you love the Founding or not?