Posted on 07/10/2023 8:31:58 AM PDT by ganeemead
Kiev needs to take whatever terms they can get and stop the carnage The situation for the Kiev regime is catastrophic now and figures to get worse.
“””No! Once a week a Russian Equipment loss is posted on FR and the Russians have used up all their weapons, twice! So you know the 1st casualty in war is…… the truth.”””
None of us have seen that thread, what are the numbers it is claiming that are double what Russia was thought to have before they started this war?
Production of munitions is constant, and is happening in several countries. This is a dynamic situation, not static.
The production rate is still lower than what Ukraine wants to use.
What’s getting shipped now are 155mm DPICM shells (look it up). These could be good substitutes for 155mm HE for a lot of uses, especially counterbattery and shooting at tanks, as they are armor piercing bomblets. Not so good against bunkers or buildings. The US has to dispose of them anyway.
What could also get shipped are the M26 cluster munition (look it up) for the MLRS/HIMARS system. Those things are devastating. At one time these were the principal ammo for US rocket artillery. I understand the US has vast numbers in stock.
Granted, Ukraine has few HIMARs or MLRS launchers, as they were supplied to shoot precision GMLRS GPS ammo, not as general purpose artillery. But originally the MLRS was actually the US answer to the Russian rocket artillery as an area effect weapon - the Grad, Uragan, etc. That’s why the US has about 1000 redundant MLRS systems it could ship. Every US Division had at least a battalion of MLRS.
The DOD is saving those for use against American citizens.
The Trump administration cancels a plan to curtail the use of cluster bombs
November 30, 2017
“The policy change, which reverses a 2008 decision by the George W. Bush administration”
“The 2008 policy would have banned the use of all cluster munitions that have an unexploded ordnance rate above 1 percent. Going forward, the U.S. military will be allowed to buy cluster bombs that don’t meet that standard, so long as they have “advanced safety features” such as self-destruct mechanisms that would kick in after they are dropped.
War is a racket by Smedley Butler. rmRead it if you haven’t already.
Quite a number of politicians on both sides of the aisle are in the pocket of the military industrial complex. How did we get here? They have no business being in politics if they’re chasing after war profits.
And yet those same politicos and bureaucrats despise the middle class who pays the bulk of the taxes! Go figure...
I wouldn’t care, but how many are just getting killed for no reason now?
It’s easy for us, because we’re just talking smack to one another online.
I live in the US. I wake up, walk to the other room and make good money.
My life is easy.
None of us has real skin in the game.
155mm DPICM, not aircraft bombs. That’s what’s on the list.
Given the vast number of shells that have already been fired by both sides, the high dud rste of especially Russian ammo, the use of mines by the millions, and the extensive Russian use of cluster munitions already, adding the US made stuff is a moot point. There are parts of Ukraine that are going to be dangerous for a long time.
American? Ukes would be murdered in those planes for no gain, not that they have managed it anyway.
I am not an F-16 or F/A 18 pilot. I asked, and was told that the F-16 is the easiest aircraft to fly, and train on. The pilots in question had flown multiple fighter and even multi-engine bombers for comparison, that would make them an expert (they admitted that the F-35 was their new favorite because of the interface). There have been F-16 simulators available for decades, even some of the common purchasable simulators with ‘build-able’ cockpits are available for purchase. Simulators don’t make you ‘flight worthy’ from what I am told, but they certainly educate people to the aircraft. Therefore, it’s reasonable that intelligent people (yes I am speaking of Ukrainians and Russians) could perform in this airframe. Like Stalin used to say.....”Quantity has a Quality all of it’s own”.
The Ukraine MOD (Ministry of Defense), Oryx, and the Russian MOD. That’s where all the numbers come from, no matter who repeats them.
Neither the Ukrainians or Oryx have claimed 2X what the Russians said they had, so saying that claims were 2X Russian stocks is wrong.
That stuff wouldn’t be especially effective vs a guerilla war.
There’s a reason these weren’t much used in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Who said anything about war? They'd be very effective against a MAGA rally. The deep state scum would just declare that it's an insurrection and bomb away.
Nonsense.
Yesterday, President Biden’s statement has been confirmed by John Kirby, the National Security Council’s Coordinator for Strategic Communications
So its official, and not a result of The President’s confusion.
Mr Kirby echoed the President stating that cluster weapoms are being provided because the Ukraine is running out of conventional ammo, saying “This is about keeping Ukraine in the fight.”
One year ago, the US stated that the use of cluster bombs is “a war crime” So now, The US leadership is enabling what it defined as a a war crime.
Why are would they enable a war crime?
Here’s what I figure:
The US and the Ukraine are losing. The sanctions have failed. The front is static. The offensive is a bust. The Russians are waging a Zhukov style war of attrition. Ukraine has already lost 20% of its population. They are probaly considering peace talks. And the US leadersip is desperate to prevent more humiliation. When you need to save face, you do what you gotta do. Even a war crime? Whatever.
Anyhow, on why the US leadership is enabling a war crime, what do you guys figure?
You have a healthy imagination.
However these things would be useless vs an indoor venue. They are light bomblets that are unlikely to penetrate most roofs and explode among the crowd.
And anyway, after just one volley it will no longer be a matter of rallies, but guerilla war. So not much ammo likely to be used.
How many hours do you think the ukie pilots got before the war monthly? Now stick them in a new jet that's 'easy to fly', still won't be getting hours, not flying to Warsaw, they have to fight the plane, not just sit in it. Simulators are no replacement for flighttime despite the claims of the manufacturers. If they got the planes they would have to train in ukeville which means those bases become targets, any who actually flew in combat would be butchered by the Russkies by air to air combat or the S-400 SAM.
I figure Ukraine is shooting a lot of ammo in counterbattery fires. That may even be the primary use of “western” 155mm guns in this war. The 155mm DPICM is better at that than 155mm HE and serves to stretch out ammo supplies.
You can figure what you like, but IMHO most of this is a result of Ukrainian negotiation with the US and other countries. Ukraine needed everything yesterday as of 2/2022. Its had to overcome a lot of reluctance along the way.
That doesn't make it one, it is a little more involved. The only profitable possible use of CM would be in the ATACMs fired by the MLRS. The uke arty is spent all we sent wasted.
flooding the titanic evenly
would’ve kept it
from tipping over
breaking apart
floating longer
couldn’t they get
a lifeboat to the carpathian
to rescue everyone
drown the steerage people like rats
just like what the liberals
are doing to ukraine
If they get the planes they can train in a lot of countries, which have offered training facilities.
The main uses of F-16s in Ukraine as I see it
1. As a CAP, covering several regions, looking to shoot down cruise missiles, to be a more flexible extension of the SAM system. The F16 should be good at this with its radar and AMRAAMs. The Ukrainians are running low on S300’s and probably want to reserve them for manned aircraft. There is no shortage of AMRAAMs.
2. Pop up launch of SDB or JDAM. This is something that the Ukrainians are already doing some of, but the F16s should be better at it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toss_bombing
3. Should the Russians get inspired to risk losses and commit a large strike package into Ukrainian airspace, the F16’s can likewise be surged to oppose it, much better than the Mig 29s. They have much better radars and missiles. This is insurance, just in case the Russians change their behavior.
I doubt very much that Ukraine intends to commit the F16s into the Russian Air defense zone.
You could try doing some homework.
The US is sending 155mm DPICM.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m864.htm
This is excellent stuff for counterbattery, which seems to be mostly what the Uke 155mm guns are used for.
The more likely use of MLRS, if available in some numbers, would be to use up the huge stocks of M26 series DPICM, which was its primary ammo. But Ukraine had only about three dozen such launchers (HIMARS and M270 MLRS). So they are better off sniping with GMLRS. ATACMS seems better used against distant infrastructure (hint: a certain bridge).
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.